Department Stores

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:01:05 Hello and welcome to The Luxury Podcast. My name's Jonathan Vernon-Smith, and with me is William Hanson. This is the podcast that helps you live a more luxury life.

William Hanson 0:01:22 Hello, Jonathan and I are here to help you create the everyday moments of luxury that make life worth living, whatever your budget. In each episode, I'll share my thoughts on a luxury item, and William will share his thoughts on how to get it.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:01:28 On the Luxury Podcast, William and I tackle an area of life that we think you should upgrade, sorting the Ons Lows from the Hyacinths, advising the nation in gracious living. So, William, what are we going to talk about today?

William Hanson 0:01:40 We are going to talk about department stores. Ground floor perfumery, stationery and leather goods, sweets and haberdashery, kitchenware and food going up.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:01:50 Lovely.

William Hanson 0:01:51 What was that the theme tune from?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:01:52 Uh, Are You Being Served?

William Hanson 0:01:54 Exactly. Yes, that programme was what inspired my mother to work in retail.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:01:59 Really?

William Hanson 0:01:59 She watched it as a child and she went, I want to work in retail.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:02:01 Was she the Mrs. Slocum of her shop?

William Hanson 0:02:04 She was quite young at the time, so she'd be Miss Brahms.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:02:07 Oh, okay.

William Hanson 0:02:08 Thank you.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:02:09 There we go. Before you make any jokes. I won't make any more jokes.

William Hanson 0:02:12 No, she kills cats now. Very different. Yes, do you love a department store? Do you like shopping in general?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:02:25 Um, not so much anymore. No, I used to years ago. I have to be honest, I kind of find department stores, as with most shops now, they're just full of people, aren't they? And I find people—

William Hanson 0:02:37 That's the idea.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:02:38 Quite irritating.

William Hanson 0:02:39 You want people to come in.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:02:40 Yeah. There's only— I only go to one department store. No, that's not quite true. There is another one that I do go to sometimes, but there's one department store that I do go because they welcome my dogs.

William Hanson 0:02:53 John Lewis.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:02:54 John Lewis and Partners. Juan Luis. Yes, indeed. That's— and I like the one at Welland Garden, which used to be known as Welland Department Stores. Did you know that?

William Hanson 0:03:07 No. Until when?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:03:09 Until John Lewis bought it.

William Hanson 0:03:11 Yeah, well, when was that?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:03:12 I don't know.

William Hanson 0:03:13 As in, in your lifetime, it was known as Welland Department Stores?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:03:15 Yes, when I was a kid. Yeah.

William Hanson 0:03:16 Okay.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:03:16 Used to go over to Welland Stores. But it's kind of an old-fashioned John Lewis.

William Hanson 0:03:21 Have they updated the branding, or are they still the old branding? That's what I'm trying to say.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:03:24 I don't know. It's been a while since I've been there.

William Hanson 0:03:26 Because I went past Westfield, the West London Westfield the other day, and they've still got the old logo, and they've had that new awful black logo for years now.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:03:33 Gosh.

William Hanson 0:03:34 It's quite nice seeing the old one.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:03:35 Is it?

William Hanson 0:03:36 Looks much nicer. There

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:03:37 you go. So, I do like a John Lewis, but I haven't been for a long time. Um, I used to take my grandmothers to John Lewis. They always liked it.

William Hanson 0:03:45 Okay.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:03:46 Yeah. Take one of them in a wheelchair, wheel her round. Shouldn't be rude about people. Wheel her home. That was always a fun time at John Lewis.

William Hanson 0:03:55 Did you leave her in any departments like you used to leave her in nativity scenes?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:03:59 No, no, no, I didn't.

William Hanson 0:04:01 No,

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:04:01 no, absolutely not.

William Hanson 0:04:03 That would have been fun. I don't mind a department store. I like department stores first thing on a Monday. That is the time. I've said it before, Harrods, 10 o'clock on a Monday, is heaven. There's no one in there. You have it all to yourself. Whereas Harrods on a weekend, absolute nightmare.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:04:21 What's your favourite part of the department store?

William Hanson 0:04:26 Um, ooh.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:04:28 I love kitchenware. Call me old-fashioned.

William Hanson 0:04:31 I do like kitchenware or tableware.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:04:33 I love kitchenware and vacuum cleaners.

William Hanson 0:04:35 Okay. Yeah, cleaning. Homeware.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:04:38 Yeah, very much so.

William Hanson 0:04:39 I like that. I like that section.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:04:41 But you probably like posh ones, don't you? Do you like kind of Harvey Nichols?

William Hanson 0:04:45 No.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:04:46 No?

William Hanson 0:04:46 I went into Harvey Nichols a couple of years ago, actually, to find You know, you ridicule me for my Fraser Crane orthopaedic shoes that make him fall off the stage.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:04:56 Yeah.

William Hanson 0:04:56 I went, I Googled where you get them, and it said that Athletic Propulsion Labs have a concession within Harvey Nichols. I went into Harvey Nichols for the first time for quite some time. What a horrid, pokey little store.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:05:10 Oh,

William Hanson 0:05:11 I didn't like it at all. The one in Bristol, because there is one I think it's still there, bizarrely. They opened up in Bristol when Cabot Circus, the sort of shopping area, opened. They put a small— is all right. It's a bit more contemporary. But the one in Knightsbridge in London, no. Didn't like it at all. And people rave about it. I mean, maybe— I think it's quite high fashion.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:05:33 Yeah.

William Hanson 0:05:34 But in terms of a shopping experience, didn't like it at all. And they didn't have the shoes either.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:05:38 Do you like a Marks& Spencer department store? There aren't many of them.

William Hanson 0:05:44 No, they're all food concessions now.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:05:47 Yeah, but the one in London Coney, have I ever taken you there?

William Hanson 0:05:50 No.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:05:51 It's very nice. They've got homeware, they've got clothing, they've got food.

William Hanson 0:05:55 Yeah, that's a department store.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:05:56 They've even got spectacles.

William Hanson 0:05:58 Oh.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:05:59 They've got an optician's in there.

William Hanson 0:06:01 I'm not going to London Coney to have my eyes tested.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:06:03 You could have Marks& Spencer glasses for a better class of person.

William Hanson 0:06:08 No, I'm fine going where I go.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:06:09 And they've got a nice restaurant upstairs.

William Hanson 0:06:12 Oh, a little M&S cafe?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:06:14 No, no, it's not a little M&S cafe. It's quite luxury.

William Hanson 0:06:16 Is it a cafe?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:06:17 Yes.

William Hanson 0:06:19 Is there a tray and you slide it against a metal—

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:06:21 There's a restaurant. There always used to be. It's been a while since, so I don't want to be saying something that's out of— it used to be a kind of sushi bar and everything there.

William Hanson 0:06:29 In London Coney?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:06:30 There's no need to adopt that tone. You're surrounded by affluence.

William Hanson 0:06:36 In London Coney? I don't know much about London Coney.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:06:38 Don't you?

William Hanson 0:06:39 No.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:06:40 Well, hang on.

William Hanson 0:06:41 Is it nice?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:06:42 What? London Coney? It's all right. But there's a big London Coney shopping retail park. Marks& Spencer's. I'm just looking up what they've got.

William Hanson 0:06:53 Where says luxury more than a retail park?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:06:55 That's what I always say. I'm sure they've got They used to have at least 2 restaurants there. M&S Caf. Oh. Hang on a minute. No, here we go. Marks& Spencer, the restaurant.

William Hanson 0:07:12 The restaurant. Can I see a picture?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:07:14 The rest— oh, hang on. It's got— oh, wow. TripAdvisor, it's not doing so well. I don't know what's happened there since I was last there.

William Hanson 0:07:28 There's a lot of oak. I mean, right.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:07:36 What's the matter?

William Hanson 0:07:38 Right.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:07:38 You're looking on TripAdvisor.

William Hanson 0:07:39 I'm looking. Yeah. Pictures. Oh,

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:07:46 it's like

William Hanson 0:07:47 the sort of waiting room at Dignitas.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:07:49 It has a waiting room at Dignitas. Maybe it's gone downhill since I was last there.

William Hanson 0:07:58 Oh, dirty restaurant! Someone's put with a photo of the cutlery.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:08:01 Where's the dirt? Oh.

William Hanson 0:08:05 On the back of the cutlery.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:08:06 Give it a buff.

William Hanson 0:08:07 Lunch!

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:08:08 What is that? Cup of tea.

William Hanson 0:08:10 It's a cup of tea.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:08:11 Looks quite a nice cup of tea, actually.

William Hanson 0:08:13 Shall we read some of the reviews?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:08:14 No, don't do that, William. We'll get sued.

William Hanson 0:08:17 Well, there are 167 of them.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:08:20 Anyway, well, all I can say is, uh, it used to be nice. Maybe it still is. Maybe these are just Marks& Spencer money people. Oh, there's an M&S Café review as well. That's not done so well on TripAdvisor, right? Yeah, on second thoughts, William, I won't take you there.

William Hanson 0:08:39 No? Oh, what a shame. So, is Marks& Spencer department store— would we call it luxury?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:08:46 Well, um—

William Hanson 0:08:47 Because come on, we've got to talk about the luxury ones. The actually luxury ones.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:08:51 Yeah, I would say Marks& Spencer is kind of, um, it's middle class.

William Hanson 0:08:58 Yeah, but that's not necessarily luxury, is it?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:09:00 It's— well, it's— it's—

William Hanson 0:09:01 Come on. What are the 2 luxury department stores in this country?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:09:05 Selfridges.

William Hanson 0:09:06 Oh, okay. I forgot them.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:09:08 Selfridges, Harrods, and Fortnum& Mason.

William Hanson 0:09:14 I would say Harrods and Fortnum's.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:09:16 Right.

William Hanson 0:09:16 Selfridges, yeah, I don't think it's a particularly luxury shopping experience.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:09:21 No, I don't either.

William Hanson 0:09:21 Compared— the building's nice from the outside, lovely building.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:09:24 Yeah.

William Hanson 0:09:24 But inside, again, Monday morning, 10 o'clock, it's fine.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:09:29 Yeah, but I don't— Fortnum& Mason, Harrods, they're kind of exceptional, special places. That's not—

William Hanson 0:09:36 Luxury.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:09:36 Your average department store, is it? No. For a better class of person.

William Hanson 0:09:40 Although during COVID when we were sort of eventually allowed out and could do basic stuff, literally the highlight of our week was walking to— oh, we'd get the train to Paddington, and then we'd walk through the park to Fortnum's, which was one of the very few shops allowed to open because they were sort of playing the we're a department store card. You couldn't go up into sort of the higher floors where they sold clothes, but the bottom 2 floors were open. And Mikey and I would do our little sort of fun shopping, enough for us to then carry back on the train. And that generally, that was what got us through COVID, was doing a whole shop. And it was lovely because there were no tourists. It was just all local people.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:10:18 We've lost some good department stores. Debenhams. Uh, why, why are you pulling a funny face? Debenhams used to be—

William Hanson 0:10:27 I don't think I have ever been in a Debenhams. I mean, now I never will.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:10:30 Well, Debenhams went downhill. Um, the other one I used to love, and I can't wait to see your face when I say this, but There is a reason why I used to love it. British Home Stores, BHS. Do you know why I love BHS? Their lighting department was second to none. I've still got some of their lamps. Beautiful lighting. I was devastated when they went because of their lighting.

William Hanson 0:10:57 Okay.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:10:59 What else?

William Hanson 0:10:59 We had in Bristol, we had Bentalls.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:11:00 Oh, okay.

William Hanson 0:11:02 For a bit.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:11:02 Yeah.

William Hanson 0:11:03 Which went into what— where John Lewis was in Broadmead. When John Lewis moved out to Cribbs Causeway, and the Mall, there was a great big unit left over, and that became Bentalls, and now it's a Primark.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:11:14 Oh.

William Hanson 0:11:15 Hmm.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:11:15 Fennick.

William Hanson 0:11:16 Oh.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:11:17 There's an ice department store.

William Hanson 0:11:19 Now, that's gone bust in London.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:11:20 What?

William Hanson 0:11:21 That went bust years ago.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:11:23 What are you talking about? I just ordered some garden furniture from there a couple of weeks ago.

William Hanson 0:11:26 I think it's online.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:11:27 Really?

William Hanson 0:11:28 There's one in Newcastle. There's a Fennick's there.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:11:31 There must be one still in Brink Cross.

William Hanson 0:11:32 Oh, yes, there is.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:11:34 Yes.

William Hanson 0:11:34 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I drove past it.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:11:35 Right. So, retract that before their lawyers sue you.

William Hanson 0:11:38 No, but the one on Bond Street— New Bond Street has gone. It's a building sign.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:11:41 Is it? Oh, that's a shame. Well, I like a Fennick.

William Hanson 0:11:45 Okay.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:11:45 I like Fennick as well.

William Hanson 0:11:46 Harrods or Fortnum's, which one do you prefer?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:11:48 Fortnum's. Yeah.

William Hanson 0:11:52 But again, on a weekend, oh, it's a nightmare. I do think with Harrods and Fortnum's, there would be great markets, and I will pitch it to them if they're listening. Well, I'm pitching it now, is let's clone them, and then we can have a Harrods for the tourists, right? A Fortnum's for the tourists. And then the ones that are actually going in— Not just for you. Not just for me. The ones, people who are actually shopping. It's the ones, and it's normally on the lower floors rather than the higher floors, who are just sort of aimlessly wandering around looking, maybe on their phone. And they've gone in because, you know, it's given them something to do. But if you're actually going in because you want to go and get the beef sandwich from the food counter, or whatever it is, or you're going for your haircut, or whatever. Get out my way.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:12:33 Right.

William Hanson 0:12:33 It annoys me.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:12:34 I feel as if you and I have different attitudes to department stores. You keep coming back to Harrods and Fortnum's, and I lust after the days of BHS and Marks& Spencer in London Coney.

William Hanson 0:12:48 Yeah.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:12:49 I feel as if we have different aspirations when it comes to our department stores.

William Hanson 0:12:54 We

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:12:54 do.

William Hanson 0:12:55 But I'd like to run a department store briefly.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:12:57 Would

William Hanson 0:12:57 you?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:12:59 Yeah. I think it'd be quite fun. You'd last no time at all.

William Hanson 0:13:01 No, I wouldn't, but it would be quite fun.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:13:03 Just because you'd like to waft about ordering people?

William Hanson 0:13:07 I'd quite like to be Captain Peacock, the floor walker.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:13:09 I bet you would. Yeah, yeah.

William Hanson 0:13:11 And you don't get floor walkers anymore, sadly.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:13:13 Is a Dunelm a department store? Have you ever been in a Dunelm?

William Hanson 0:13:18 No, it's just a big shop.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:13:20 Yeah, but it's got Homeware, haberdashery, it's got furniture, it's got lighting, it's got kitchenware, and it's got a café where I'm told they do a mean jacket.

William Hanson 0:13:35 I remember going once with my friend Jonathan— oh, the friend, not you. I didn't know you at this time. We were at school, we were in sixth form, and because I had a car, I was used quite a lot to take people hither and thither in Bristol, and he needed to go to somewhere. We had to go to somewhere called TK Maxx.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:13:53 Yes.

William Hanson 0:13:53 Yes. So, he wanted to go to TK Maxx in Cribs Causeway. So, I drove him. He was in his sort of, sort of not rugby kit, but like sports tracksuit thing, and I had my sixth-form suit on. And because I was standing with my arms behind the back at the entrance, numerous people came up to me thinking that I worked there.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:14:11 Really?

William Hanson 0:14:12 I thought, people in TK Maxx don't wear suits.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:14:14 TK Maxx?

William Hanson 0:14:14 No. So I had to go, I'm so sorry, I don't work here.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:14:17 Well, there you go.

William Hanson 0:14:17 But my mother gets that still because she spent most of her formative years before she married my father in department stores. And still to this day, every time she goes into a department store, people come up to her and go, excuse me, where are the loos? Or, do you have this in a medium? She says you just clearly give off an aura that you work in a department store. And it's literally— I can be with her, it will happen, particularly in John Lewis, even though she didn't work for them.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:14:39 Do you like a bite to eat in a department store? No, no,

William Hanson 0:14:43 no.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:14:43 Why not?

William Hanson 0:14:44 Uh, unless it's the Parlour at Fortnum's.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:14:47 For God's sake, you and Fortnum's!

William Hanson 0:14:51 No, I don't want— I want to do the shopping. I don't need to sit down and sort of resuscitate myself with some dry scone.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:14:58 Oh, I like a cup of tea and a scone in John Lewis. I like it. You've done a bit of shopping, you think, I deserve a scone and a cup of tea. Okay. A pot of tea for one. Oh, spot on.

William Hanson 0:15:12 You see, that's why I don't like tea.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:15:14 But it does annoy me that they don't let dogs in the café.

William Hanson 0:15:17 Do John Lewis not do that?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:15:18 No, you're welcome to take your dog into the whole shop, but not into the café.

William Hanson 0:15:23 But not into the Ben Ugo.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:15:25 Into the what?

William Hanson 0:15:25 Ben Ugo. Aren't the John Lewis cafés Ben Ugos now?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:15:28 Oh gosh, I don't know.

William Hanson 0:15:29 Maybe that's just in London.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:15:30 Oh. Well, no, they might be. I don't know. I haven't been for years and years.

William Hanson 0:15:35 Well, well done for doing research for this episode.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:15:38 Yeah, well, clearly. I should have gone shopping, shouldn't I?

William Hanson 0:15:40 How about department stores overseas?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:15:41 Oh, El Corte Inglés.

William Hanson 0:15:45 The English Court?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:15:47 Yeah.

William Hanson 0:15:47 Okay, where's that?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:15:48 Spain.

William Hanson 0:15:49 Is that a department store across all of Spain?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:15:51 There are a few.

William Hanson 0:15:52 Okay, fine.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:15:54 They're considered high-end.

William Hanson 0:15:56 Have you done Bon Marché in Paris?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:15:58 Bon Marché?

William Hanson 0:16:00 Bon Marché.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:16:01 I thought Bon Marché was for 50-year-old women.

William Hanson 0:16:04 No, not this Bon Marché. We went to Bon Marché, stock my book,

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:16:09 Really? Is it a department store?

William Hanson 0:16:11 It's a beautiful department store.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:16:13 Oh.

William Hanson 0:16:14 Galeries Lafayette, that's also very nice.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:16:15 Oh, yes.

William Hanson 0:16:16 And they have— and actually, I think the French are onto something here, and we should do more of this in this country. They have next door to each other Galeries Lafayette for women and Galeries Lafayette for men. So, in terms of the clothing. So, rather than just different floors, just— I mean, to be fair, the male one is a little bit of a smaller building. And then they also have Galeries Lafayette Home. I think that's quite smart. Nice. So, it's across 3 buildings.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:16:39 Do you like to go television shopping in a department store?

William Hanson 0:16:43 For a television?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:16:44 No, for a toaster.

William Hanson 0:16:53 I don't know if I've ever done that.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:16:57 Have you not?

William Hanson 0:16:58 No, normally my television is selected for me.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:17:00 What do you mean by that?

William Hanson 0:17:02 Well, Mikey will just say, this is the television we're getting.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:17:04 Oh, okay.

William Hanson 0:17:05 Be like, all right, he's done the research.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:17:06 Oh no, I've always enjoyed it. Whenever the television breaks, I think, oh, that's my favourite thing.

William Hanson 0:17:11 How often does your television break?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:17:13 Well, every few years you go to John Lewis and you find a nice young man, you say, can you show me what you've got?

William Hanson 0:17:18 Show me what you've got in 42 inches.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:17:21 But I quite like television shopping. In a department store. You look at all the different screens with the pictures on, you make your selection. I like that.

William Hanson 0:17:36 Don't they normally have to have the same picture on so you can then compare?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:17:40 Yeah. Yes, often.

William Hanson 0:17:42 Yeah. The same fishes swimming around coral.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:17:45 Yes. And in the John Lewis in Welling, there's a nice alfresco area as well. There's nice garden furniture, Barbecues.

William Hanson 0:17:56 You don't buy your garden furniture from a department store, do

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:18:01 you? Well, I did. I bought this furniture from Fennick.

William Hanson 0:18:04 Oh, nice. Oh, have I seen this?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:18:06 No, little corner bistro set.

William Hanson 0:18:08 Oh, I haven't seen this.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:18:09 It's because, you know, I like to have different seating areas in the garden.

William Hanson 0:18:13 You do?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:18:14 Depending on where the sun is, because I think it's always nice to be able to follow the sun. So in the morning, I've got my alfresco corner sofa system with—

William Hanson 0:18:27 With the fire pit, like Love Island.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:18:28 Inbuilt fire pit. Then I've got my lunchtime area where you get the sun at lunchtime, and then my new bistro set is my evening gin and tonic area, you see, because the sun has moved around. But that, that was from Fennec.

William Hanson 0:18:43 Nice. Well, you have to send me a picture because I don't know what that looks like.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:18:45 It's only just a little simple bistro set. For a better class of person. It's got cushions you can leave out in the rain.

William Hanson 0:18:53 Oh.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:18:54 I haven't tried that yet.

William Hanson 0:18:56 No, I can't see you wanting to try that.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:18:57 But apparently the water soaks through them.

William Hanson 0:18:59 Lovely. What an absorbent—

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:19:03 Tell me, what natural fibre is that? But I haven't done that.

William Hanson 0:19:12 No.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:19:12 Because I'm always—

William Hanson 0:19:13 Probably hasn't rained.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:19:14 Well, it has not rained, but I don't want them to go smelly.

William Hanson 0:19:17 Oh no, you don't want that.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:19:18 You know, you don't want a smelly garden cushion, do you?

William Hanson 0:19:21 Let's talk about American department stores, because you probably go into those when you go to Florida. You've got your Macy's, you've got your Bloomingdale's.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:19:27 Oh yeah.

William Hanson 0:19:28 You've got Neiman Marcus.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:19:29 Yeah.

William Hanson 0:19:31 Which I always refer to as needless markup. And you've got— what's the other one? Big

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:19:36 one. Target. Target.

William Hanson 0:19:38 No, luxury. Oh.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:19:41 What's wrong with Target?

William Hanson 0:19:42 Target's fine, but it's not luxury, Jonathan.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:19:46 No. They have the best towels. You know all of my towels are from Tajé? They are all from Tajé.

William Hanson 0:19:53 Actually, I've got mine, bizarrely, for other podcasts. I had to bring in one of my towels today. It's over there. Should review my towels.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:19:59 Oh, do you know, you mentioned TK Maxx earlier. I went into TK Maxx the other day.

William Hanson 0:20:04 Yeah.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:20:04 I needed a dish, and I went into TK Maxx.

William Hanson 0:20:08 What was his name?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:20:09 I lined them up, and I had a feel of the towel. They had some exquisite towels in there.

William Hanson 0:20:17 Did they?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:20:18 Beautiful, but too big. I don't like—

William Hanson 0:20:21 You know I like a bath sheet.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:20:22 You'd love it in there. I do not like a big towel. They stay wet forever. I like a small one, as long as it's just big enough to get around my waist.

William Hanson 0:20:31 Of course, you could get away with a smaller one.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:20:33 With a— I like a small slit. But I don't like one of those big bath things.

William Hanson 0:20:44 Oh no, I like a bath sheet.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:20:45 Well, you must go to TK Maxx. They had excellent ones in white.

William Hanson 0:20:48 Lovely.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:20:50 Beautiful soft, soft cotton they were.

William Hanson 0:20:53 Gorgeous.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:20:54 Lovely.

William Hanson 0:20:54 Well, we can't remember the name of the other American department store. It'll come to me, I'm sure, at some point. Bloomingdale's?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:20:59 Bloomingdale's, Macy's.

William Hanson 0:21:01 Needless markup and Saks!

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:21:05 Well done, Rodrigo! There you go.

William Hanson 0:21:08 Thank you.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:21:09 Saks.

William Hanson 0:21:09 Now, which of those do you like? I don't like a Macy's.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:21:12 No.

William Hanson 0:21:13 No.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:21:14 No.

William Hanson 0:21:14 I don't like the Macy's in New York, the OG. I don't like any of the ones that they have all over America.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:21:19 I don't like many department stores in America. I find they often have a smell. I find they've got a smell to them.

William Hanson 0:21:26 You sound like my grandmother. I've said this before, but Granny went into a Tesco in 1976 and said it smelt and never went in one for the rest of her life.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:21:33 Well, I have found there's a— there's an aroma that you get in an American department store sometimes, and I don't quite like it. There you go, I said it. But I've never had that in a Target. Never gone in there and thought, well, this smells funny. I've gone in there many times. I did go to, uh, it was a Macy's actually I went to recently because, um, I wanted to— do you remember when I nearly ruined those towels in the Florida house?

William Hanson 0:21:59 Oh yes, yes. And you managed to get the colour back out.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:22:00 Uh, I managed to get it out, but in the meantime—

William Hanson 0:22:02 You didn't put Ace for Whites in, did you? No, I didn't. In the

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:22:05 time, I sourced them to Macy's. So, I went to check out whether they had them in the same colour should I need to replace them, which thankfully I didn't. But yes, I went into there. That was a funny store. There was an aroma in there as well. I think it's because they have a lot of carpeting.

William Hanson 0:22:22 Yeah, true. Well, when I go to America in a few weeks, I'll sniff the department stores.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:22:28 Stick your head in Macy's and sniff it. Oh, I better get that.

William Hanson 0:22:37 Yes. It's— oh, who cares who it is? We'll be back in a minute.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:24:36 Welcome back, Bucketheads. We've been discussing department stores, and it's now time for your questions. So let's check out our heaving bags of post, shall we? Do remember, if there's something on your mind that needs a luxury touch, postman@luxurypodcast.co.uk is the place for your queries and your questions. Also, a reminder, you can watch these episodes on Patreon if you join our Luxury Members Club. So head over to luxurypodcast.co.uk to join.

William Hanson 0:25:04 This one is from Karen. Many years ago, I worked as a store detective at Debenhams. You might imagine that my primary objective was catching shoplifters, but to be honest, I became far more fascinated by the different social classes of shoplifter. All the store detectives in the city used to meet for coffee, and occasionally we had to work together when a particularly enthusiastic criminal decided that one department store simply wasn't enough. We soon discovered that shoplifters, rather like the rest of society, had their own social hierarchy. The Debenhams and Co-op clientele tended to be female, heavily tattooed, with long dark hair, and several children in tow. The children were useful because a large, apparently innocent pushchair provided an excellent mobile storage facility. Add a few oversized handbags and you had what was essentially a small scale distribution network on wheels. Then there were the John Lewis and Waitrose shoplifters. They were altogether more refined. Occasionally they would arrive wearing suits, carrying briefcases, and these weren't briefcases containing important business documents, oh no. They were being gradually filled with expensive merchandise. It struck me that even crime had standards. At Debenhams, apparently you needed a pushchair. At Waitrose, you needed a briefcase. Very best wishes, Karen.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:26:15 Wow. Have you ever seen a shoplifter?

William Hanson 0:26:17 Um, no, but didn't you— you accost one? It wasn't in a department store, it was in a—

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:26:22 It was in a supermarket where I was nearly killed. That was the— that was the last time I've ever dealt with a shoplifter, because I went into this particular supermarket, and I went to the meat counter, and there was a man, and he had a big holdall And he was shovelling this meat into his holdall. So I was incensed and also terrified. So I thought, what do I do? I thought, I'll go and find a member of staff and I'll quietly just let them know and they can alert security and have him rugby tackled at the door.

William Hanson 0:27:00 Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:27:01 So I went over and I found a lady and I said in a quiet voice out of the side of my mouth, actually, if you're interested, There is a man at the back in the meat counter. He is putting meat in his bag, I think.

William Hanson 0:27:15 Was he trying to fill it? Sorry.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:27:17 Boom, boom. This woman— what, just what would be the worst thing she could do? What would be the worst thing this woman could do?

William Hanson 0:27:26 Stab you to death.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:27:27 No. What she did, she went marching up to the meat counter where this man was still there, and she went, Excuse me, that man— at which point she points at me. She said, that man just said you've put meat in your bag. At which point he turns around. Ollie, you're gonna have to get ready with the beat machine. He went, he said what? And I thought, oh, good grief, we've got a situation on our hands now, Jonathan. So I, I was on one side of the middle aisle. That might give you a slight clue as to where we were. And this guy was on the other side, and it was like a Benny Hill scene. We ran around and around as he was effing and blinding at me, telling me that when he got a hold of me, he was going to kill me. And I'm running around, I'm thinking, I have— my life has been put in danger all because I was trying to do the right thing.

William Hanson 0:28:24 Yeah.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:28:24 Anyway, finally a security guard came over and took this man's holdall off him and escorted him off. And I said to this woman, that is the last time I ever try and help you. I can't believe you just did that. I could have been murdered.

William Hanson 0:28:40 What did she say?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:28:41 She was like, well, you did tell me. I said, but you weren't supposed to go straight up to him and tell him.

William Hanson 0:28:47 For goodness sake. Stupid.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:28:48 Stupid.

William Hanson 0:28:50 I could have

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:28:50 battered this pretty face. So, yeah, but that was the last time I got involved with a shoplifter.

William Hanson 0:28:57 Outside— again, sorry to bang on. I remember years ago outside Harrods.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:29:00 Oh, really?

William Hanson 0:29:03 No, I've got videos. I came out and there were some— 2 ladies, and they had a pushchair that was empty.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:29:13 Right.

William Hanson 0:29:14 But looked like it wasn't. And they— one of them, the routine was, oh, would you like any roses? or flowers or whatever it was, whilst the other one would go around the back of whoever was standing there and take it. And I saw it happen.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:29:26 Right.

William Hanson 0:29:26 And this tourist— and I ran after this tourist and went, they've just stolen your wallet! They've just stolen your wallet! The tourist had not a clue what I was saying because they didn't speak English. So, I gave up, and I was so incensed, I went in and I told the Harrods security guard, those 2 women there, uh, you know, whatever. So, they alerted whatever. And it was at the time when I think the iPhone 12 had just come out. It had a very good optical zoom. So I went around the other side of the Brompton Road and hid behind some scaffolding, and I filmed them. And then I went in and showed it to Harrods, and I had to send that footage in.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:30:01 And what happened to them?

William Hanson 0:30:02 Well, I've never seen them out. Apparently they were there. Oh, they're out there all the time. Oh, and since then they're never there. I look for them every time. It was— that was 2018.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:30:09 See, in South America, They arm the security, don't they, Rodrigo? Yes. And, uh, I think we should have a bit of that in this country. Yeah. You know, have armed security on the entrance to John Lewis. Shoplifter comes in, kill 'em.

William Hanson 0:30:25 Never knowingly undertooled.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:30:31 That's where we go wrong in this country.

William Hanson 0:30:36 Yeah.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:30:36 We're too damn soft. Oh, by the way, Ben's been in touch, William.

William Hanson 0:30:40 Yes.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:30:41 He says, dear William and Jonathan, longtime listener, regular letter writer, and religious listener of the podcast. One of my first jobs was working in a CD store in Australia, which should give you an idea of my now advanced age. It was a casual workplace environment. I'm saying that because of you.

William Hanson 0:31:02 Yeah, I was going to say, you'd never say casual.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:31:04 I can't help it. You're rubbing off on me.

William Hanson 0:31:10 Well, I've got to do something in Frick.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:31:12 It was a casual workplace environment with no uniform or dress code. I once went straight from the beach to work in swimmers and flip-flops without showering or changing, with no consequences. And visible tattoos and body piercings were not only allowed, they were encouraged. Not being quite emo or goth enough to fit in there, I then worked in the music department at David Jones, a famous Australian department store, the equivalent of John Lewis, and a significant change of environment where suits, ties, and polished leather shoes were compulsory for all staff. When meeting my new colleagues and advising them of my previous place of employment, many congratulated me on moving up in the world, even though both jobs paid exactly the same hourly wage. I found the snobbishness of the David Jones staff comical at times, thinking they were so elite because they wore an uncomfortable suit to work and the floors were polished nightly, yet they were still paid meagre wages for the exact same work. My question is, is it luxury to earn minimum wage? If your surroundings are at least luxurious. Should retail workers with a love of music be applying to Harrods over HMV? Kind regards, Ben from London.

William Hanson 0:32:43 Golly. Yes, well, I don't know if working in retail certainly today is particularly lucrative.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:32:48 No.

William Hanson 0:32:49 No, regardless of which department store you work for.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:32:52 I think if I was on minimum wage, I'd rather work somewhere luxury.

William Hanson 0:32:56 Yes.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:32:56 Because at least I'd be working in a more luxury environment.

William Hanson 0:33:01 Yeah.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:33:01 So, I think that it would be better.

William Hanson 0:33:03 Yes, it would. I do prefer it, and it doesn't really happen anymore, but I remember a time when people that worked in department stores wore suits, whereas now they're in polos. Are they? And trousers generally, and it's not the same. No. And it just— even the nice ones, not the ones that I keep banging on about.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:33:20 What? Fortnum or Harrods?

William Hanson 0:33:22 Well, they wear tailcoats at Fortnum's, which is nice. But no, in more everyday department stores, they've all switched to sort of dark polo shirts, and I just don't think it looks as nice. No. Personally,

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:33:32 no. And you know I love a polo.

William Hanson 0:33:35 Yes.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:33:35 Can't go wrong with a manly polo.

William Hanson 0:33:37 No, but then you look like the clientele.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:33:38 Exactly.

William Hanson 0:33:40 You do need to be above it.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:33:41 A polo for me says casual man about town, you know. It doesn't necessarily mean I work for John Lewis.

William Hanson 0:33:48 No. Can I take your inside leg? Yeah. This is from Lydia.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:33:55 Oh, yes.

William Hanson 0:33:55 Do you think it's Lydia Hawksworth?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:33:57 Probably.

William Hanson 0:33:58 Yes. Hello to my favourite presenters ever. I live in what I hope you can agree is the most luxury town in the north, Chester. There's a Penhaligon's shop on the High Street that has a little flume that wafts their scent out onto the street. It smells divine, and surely there's no better way to tell everyone your shop is luxury, is there?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:34:16 Well, do you know, it's funny you say that because you know my love of Dr. Franckiez.

William Hanson 0:34:21 Yes.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:34:22 With the diffusers.

William Hanson 0:34:23 Yes, you've got— I've got my mother into them.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:34:27 Good. They have in their store in Italy that I went to—

William Hanson 0:34:31 Oh.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:34:32 As you are walking along the street, you get this wonderful smell, and they've got— it's like a little glory hole. They've got a little hole in the wall, and through the hole— What?

William Hanson 0:34:51 Can you see their diffuser?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:35:01 Through their hole—

William Hanson 0:35:03 Jonathan's doing some very interesting hand movements.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:35:05 I was trying to indicate it's a hole. Through their hole comes a little puff. It's a little puff of vapour. And they just puff out vapour, smelly vapour, into the street all day. And you're drawn to it. You think, that smells nice, I'm going to go in there. We should have that here, shouldn't we?

William Hanson 0:35:24 We should. Well, the Penhaligon's— the Penhaligon's store on Regent Street does that.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:35:33 Really?

William Hanson 0:35:34 It's very nice when you walk past it.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:35:35 Through a hole?

William Hanson 0:35:36 Yep.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:35:37 Oh, I didn't know we had that here.

William Hanson 0:35:39 Go and check it out.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:35:39 I think it's very, very, very nice.

William Hanson 0:35:42 Gorgeous.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:35:43 Well, haven't we had fun?

William Hanson 0:35:45 What fun!

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:35:46 Who knew department stores were such fun? And we're so aligned with our tastes in department stores. We'll leave it there for now. We will be back tomorrow for one of our bonus episodes, won't we?

William Hanson 0:35:57 Yes, we will.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:35:57 But until then, goodbye!