Bread

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:01:08 Hello and welcome to The Luxury Podcast. My name's Jonathan Vernon-Smith, and with me is William Hanson. This is the podcast that helps you live a more luxury life.

William Hanson 0:01:20 Hello, Jonathan. I'm here to help you create the everyday moments of luxury that make life worth living, whatever your budget.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:01:25 Now, in each episode of The Luxury Podcast, William and I tackle an area of life that we think you should upgrade. Sorting the onslows from the hyacinths, advising the nation in gracious living. So, William, what are we going to talk about today?

William Hanson 0:01:41 Bread.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:01:43 Bread. Pan. What?

William Hanson 0:01:48 Indeed, pan for our French listeners.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:01:52 Pan.

William Hanson 0:01:52 Pan.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:01:53 And, uh, and for our Spanish listeners?

William Hanson 0:01:56 Is it pan as well?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:01:58 Pan.

William Hanson 0:01:59 Pan.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:02:01 Well done, Greg. Well done.

William Hanson 0:02:04 Speaking German.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:02:04 Brot. Brot.

William Hanson 0:02:06 I think is German.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:02:07 Ah, das ist sehr gut.

William Hanson 0:02:09 And probably Dutch as well, or brood.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:02:11 Probably.

William Hanson 0:02:12 Yes.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:02:13 I love bread.

William Hanson 0:02:14 Yes, if you're gluten-free, I apologise. Um, although you can get gluten-free bread, probably. It's not really the same.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:02:21 I don't know. I've never tried it.

William Hanson 0:02:22 I wish gluten-free bread— because a few people I know in my life are gluten-free, and so when gluten-free bread then comes out in a restaurant for them as a sort of a Yeah. Alternative. It's always a little bit warm because they've always just microwaved it out of the freezer.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:02:34 Oh, really? Yeah, you always touch—

William Hanson 0:02:35 I mean, actually, there's warm because actually fresh bread in a restaurant where it's warm, delicious, and it's just come out the oven, lovely. But there's a different warmth to microwave warmth, I always think. It's not quite the same. It's a slightly damp warmth.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:02:49 We are, and I'm going to say this, I'm going to put it out there.

William Hanson 0:02:55 Yeah.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:02:56 We are the best in the world when it comes to bread.

William Hanson 0:03:00 What, even above the French?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:03:01 Yes. I genuinely think— Are you joking?

William Hanson 0:03:05 When was the last time you were in France?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:03:06 A long time ago. British bread is fantastic, and I have never had bread that is anywhere near as good from any other country.

William Hanson 0:03:18 Where'd you go to get bread?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:03:20 Well, as you know, sometimes Barb.

William Hanson 0:03:23 Oh yes.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:03:24 My neighbour Barb. But I've been off the grid for a while because I've been trying to lose a bit of weight. So I said to Barb, I'm— don't take it personally.

William Hanson 0:03:31 Don't bring your baps near me.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:03:32 I'm cancelling my baps for the meantime. And she sent me such a lovely message. She said, oh, you will come back to me, won't you? I said, don't worry, Barb. When I've banished the fat back, I'll be back.

William Hanson 0:03:44 And you're gonna get Barb's baps for the Intergen, Intergen 2.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:03:49 Absolutely.

William Hanson 0:03:50 Yes, absolutely.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:03:51 We all can't wait because Barb's Maps are pretty phenomenal.

William Hanson 0:03:54 They are. That is actually— I generally— we— I know we talk a lot about Barb's— the best sourdough I have ever had.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:04:00 I agree.

William Hanson 0:04:02 Genuinely phenomenal.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:04:03 Thank you. I will pass that on to her. She'll be absolutely thrilled. She, of course, she didn't take my advice.

William Hanson 0:04:10 No.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:04:11 And she did not brand herself as either Barb's Maps Or what was the other one I came up with? Bread and Co Sourdough. Barb and Co Sourdough. Barb and Co Sourdough. She didn't like that either. So she went with a different company. But I did have a little look up— And can you—

William Hanson 0:04:30 because we could do an affiliate link— can you— how does she operate? You go onto a website and order, or you just have to phone her?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:04:36 No, only if you know Barb.

William Hanson 0:04:38 Oh, okay. So she's not gone commercial.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:04:40 No, no one else knows Barb.

William Hanson 0:04:42 No venture capitalist has bought her out yet.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:04:44 Not yet, no. You, um, when you know Barb, you put in an order and she leaves it in her cupboard outside the front door. It's true. She's got a— it's a lovely cupboard. That's how Hovis started. It's a lovely cupboard, actually.

William Hanson 0:04:59 Is it?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:04:59 Yeah.

William Hanson 0:04:59 Is it secured so no sort of critters get in and start eating it?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:05:03 Oh, I believe it's highly secured.

William Hanson 0:05:05 But you have the delivery option?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:05:07 Uh, I do. I collect. Yeah, I collect when I'm in the mood for a Barb's Bag.

William Hanson 0:05:12 Are you still having to get bread for Laura, your producer?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:05:15 Well, I cancelled Laura. Laura's on a diet because of me as well.

William Hanson 0:05:18 Oh, is she?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:05:19 Yeah. I said, I'm not getting your bread while I'm on a diet.

William Hanson 0:05:22 No.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:05:22 So I'm afraid we're both off the old bread, which is a bit of a sore point with Laura.

William Hanson 0:05:26 Oh.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:05:27 She said to me, why do I have to be on a diet? She talks like that. I said, well, I'm afraid you do because I'm not picking up bread for you. But it's funny because sourdough, a lot of companies that create sourdough, They're quite creative with their names.

William Hanson 0:05:42 Okay.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:05:43 I'm not sure that any of them are quite as good as Barb's Baps.

William Hanson 0:05:46 No.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:05:47 Which, let's be honest, is, I would suggest, the most famous sourdough in the world.

William Hanson 0:05:52 We have made it the most famous. Yes.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:05:54 But there are some other quite nice sourdough names.

William Hanson 0:05:57 Okay.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:05:58 Yes. Bread Pitt. Clint Yeastwood.

William Hanson 0:06:02 I think I subscribed to that website.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:06:04 Dobby One-Kenobi. Bready Mercury. And wait for it. Yeast with a spoon.

William Hanson 0:06:23 Your dad could open up a bread shop.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:06:28 What?

William Hanson 0:06:28 Bready the Eagle.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:06:29 Bready the Eagle. Very good. Yeah. So, it would appear sourdough people have a sense of humour.

William Hanson 0:06:42 Bread the Duck. Retro.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:06:47 Bread the Duck. Now, he would be served in a cupboard. Breadballs. Breadballs.

William Hanson 0:06:58 Breadmiller Band. Breadwood Heath. That's one for Hampstead.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:07:03 Breadheath.

William Hanson 0:07:10 Yeah.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:07:11 Bread Heath.

William Hanson 0:07:11 A bread shop in Hampstead, Bread Heath.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:07:13 There you go.

William Hanson 0:07:14 I think it'd be nice.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:07:15 So, I think—

William Hanson 0:07:18 but is sourdough your favourite type of bread, pre-Bob?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:07:20 Well, no, no. I mean, I do love sourdough now. I'm a sourdough convert. But I would say there are 2 types of bread that I love.

William Hanson 0:07:34 Okay.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:07:35 No, 3. Call me old-fashioned. I love a crusty roll. I love a crusty— I love a crusty— a white crusty roll with maybe ham and cheese. How lovely.

William Hanson 0:07:47 No, that doesn't do anything for me.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:07:50 I like a crusty roll. I like— if not a crusty roll, I like a nice multigrain slice.

William Hanson 0:07:55 Oh.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:07:56 And I also love a baguette.

William Hanson 0:08:02 Tiger?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:08:02 No.

William Hanson 0:08:03 No?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:08:04 No.

William Hanson 0:08:05 Do you not like a tiger loaf?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:08:06 It's all right.

William Hanson 0:08:07 Yeah. Sadie likes a tiger loaf.

Speaker A 0:08:10 I was just typing in tiger bread.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:08:13 You like a tiger loaf, do you?

William Hanson 0:08:15 Easy tiger.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:08:16 No, I do like a— I love with soup. I love a baguette with soup.

William Hanson 0:08:21 You don't dip it in, do you?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:08:23 I do.

William Hanson 0:08:23 Oh, how common.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:08:24 Yeah, probably, but I like it.

William Hanson 0:08:27 No.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:08:27 And on a Saturday lunchtime, if I'm home alone, who cares?

William Hanson 0:08:30 Yeah, true.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:08:31 I can dip my baguette in what I want.

William Hanson 0:08:33 Whatever your rules are.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:08:36 Exactly. What's your favourite bread?

William Hanson 0:08:40 I like a brioche.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:08:41 Oh, I do like a brioche, but they are a little bit— I don't know, they can be a bit rich.

William Hanson 0:08:49 You've got to be in the mood. But a lot of burgers now, You'll probably know, get served in that sort of bread.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:08:56 You know me, I love a burger.

William Hanson 0:08:57 I know. Think I have the burger.

Speaker B 0:08:59 I love a burger.

William Hanson 0:09:00 Um, and that works quite nicely. I don't know, there's just something about— but always, but all just a classic, really fluffy white piece of bread. The fave— my favourite time, farmhouse loaf maybe it was called, when we used to have soup, tomato soup, cream of tomato soup. We used to have sometimes, if we're adventurous, leek and potato. but with a— with a— I think it was even Tesco's before the Waitrose opened where we used to live. A Tesco, um, farmhouse loaf, really thickly sliced, with some nice, nice proper butter. Delicious.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:09:34 Years ago, I used to get— but before I had to worry about my physique, because you know when you're young—

William Hanson 0:09:40 Oh, you can eat whatever you like.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:09:42 Metabolism like that, just burn it off. And when I was young, I used to love Kingsmill Gold. Do you remember Kingsmill Gold?

William Hanson 0:09:51 No.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:09:52 Kingsmill Gold.

William Hanson 0:09:54 No, you can say it again. I just don't remember it.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:09:57 Kingsmill Gold.

William Hanson 0:09:58 What was so good about Kingsmill Gold?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:10:01 I don't think they do Kingsmill Gold anymore, but I used to love Kingsmill Gold.

William Hanson 0:10:07 This is not an advert for Kingsmill Gold, but it has now become one.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:10:12 Oh. They might still do it, actually. I don't think they do. No, they don't do it anymore. But it was not— oh, there we go. Kingsmill Gold. Oh, I do remember that.

William Hanson 0:10:24 Do you remember that? Yes.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:10:26 Had a nice floury topping. It was a nice white loaf with flour all dusted on the top. Very nice. And with thick butter.

William Hanson 0:10:35 I do find dusty bread annoying, though.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:10:37 Do you?

William Hanson 0:10:38 Because it goes everywhere. But you can't have too much. flour on, because then if it's too much, it does go over, it goes off the bread plate, blah, blah, blah. Just a touch of dust is fine.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:10:47 What are your views on poppy seeds?

William Hanson 0:10:50 Hate them.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:10:51 Oh, but they're lovely on bread, aren't they? They're stuck in your teeth.

William Hanson 0:10:55 No, I don't like seeded bread at all.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:10:57 Oh.

William Hanson 0:10:58 No.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:10:58 Really?

William Hanson 0:10:59 Sorry.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:11:01 My late grandma— Annoys me. The one who lived to 100.

William Hanson 0:11:03 Yes.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:11:03 Who lived down in Devon, and we used to go down and stay with her, and she would say— and she wasn't really much of a cook, because she lived in a hotel, she always had a chef. In her latter years, obviously, she had to cook for herself, but she wasn't much of a cook. And I have happy memories of she would be cooking a cooked breakfast for my brother and I.

William Hanson 0:11:22 Yeah.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:11:23 And she had one of those eye-level grills. Do you remember?

William Hanson 0:11:26 Yes. Yeah.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:11:27 And she'd be frying this bread, and she used to have—

William Hanson 0:11:30 Fried bread is the most amazing.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:11:32 But she had a granary bread, and she would deep fry granary bread And the number of times she would set fire to the cuffs on her dressing gown, and she'd be patting the flames out while she was cooking.

William Hanson 0:11:46 Happy memories. Could have gone a touch Miss Havisham. Eggy bread. Did you ever do eggy bread?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:11:54 Yeah.

William Hanson 0:11:55 Oh, you didn't like eggy bread?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:11:57 Yeah, it's all right.

William Hanson 0:11:58 Sort of like a savoury French toast, for those of us that don't know what it is. Yeah. Love some eggy bread.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:12:03 Yeah. What are your views on soldiers? Talking of eggs, do you like a soldier, or is it common?

William Hanson 0:12:15 No, no, we had a soldier, but they were only above the rank of major.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:12:19 You dipped your major?

William Hanson 0:12:20 Yes. Um, yes, if you've got a boiled egg or a runny, you know, uh, what do they call it? Do I mean a soft-boiled egg? Soft-boiled egg, yes. And you have little things. That's fine to do. I mean, you wouldn't only do it at breakfast at home. You wouldn't do it anywhere smart.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:12:39 No, no, no. It's a kind of Sunday evening supper, isn't it?

William Hanson 0:12:44 Or a Sunday morning breakfast.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:12:46 Or yes, yeah. And I like it. I know it sounds a bit strange, but I like with a boiled egg where you dip your soldier in and you get a little bit of shell on it.

William Hanson 0:12:57 What? And you like the shell?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:13:02 You get to that little bit of crunch.

William Hanson 0:13:04 What a weirdo!

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:13:06 Oh, no. Oh, nice.

William Hanson 0:13:08 No, I hate that. That's the same as— because I don't like, um, I don't like bones. I don't like bones in meat.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:13:20 Right.

William Hanson 0:13:21 And I hate it when you carve into the chicken and you touch a bone. And egg is the same. Shell, eggshell, it's the same for me.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:13:27 Oh.

William Hanson 0:13:28 No, right. Um, I tell you what, and we didn't have it when we went to the Ritz, and I was disappointed. They used to do it, but I think since they got their second Michelin star, they've stopped doing it. And I think it's an underrated form of things that you can do with toast. It goes really nice with soup or pâté. Melba toast.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:13:43 Oh, Melba toast! Yes, yes.

William Hanson 0:13:45 And it's so retro.

William Hanson 0:13:47 And Melba toast, for those who don't know, it is incredibly wafer-thin, wafer-thin, uh, bread that is lightly toasted, and it ever so— sometimes it slightly curls because it is so thin, so it sort of curls up a little bit on the peaks into a triangle. Lovely. Melba toast is very nice. Very smart. Melba toast.

William Hanson 0:14:06 Escoffier did it, named after— he, in fact, Escoffier, who was the chef who actually worked with César Ritz and opened a lot of the Ritz restaurants, or César Ritz's restaurants or hotels, he was obsessed with Nellie Melba, the opera singer. So, he named lots of dishes Peach Melba, Melba Toast, various others after her to try and get her attention. Didn't work.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:14:24 Really?

William Hanson 0:14:25 Yeah.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:14:27 I love bread. I just love bread, and this conversation makes me want to get my lips around a loaf. What are your views on freezing bread? We—

William Hanson 0:14:52 I'll be honest, we do freeze our bread. We slice it, freeze it, so we can just take a slice out and pop it under the grill. We do not have a toaster.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:15:04 You— oh no, you've said this before.

William Hanson 0:15:08 Don't have a toaster. Very strange.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:15:09 Just do it under the grill. What a very strange person.

William Hanson 0:15:12 In those sort of days where we had that— what was that thing called that you got me? Um, drawers. The air fryer. The air fryer. We sometimes would do the bread in that. Sometimes.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:15:22 No wonder you didn't get on with it. You're doing funny things in there.

William Hanson 0:15:27 But a grilled bread from the freezer actually does it very nicely.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:15:31 I don't— but I have— I mean, don't get me wrong, I have what I call the emergency loaf in my freezer. There's always—

William Hanson 0:15:38 Sliced or unsliced?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:15:40 Pre-sliced.

William Hanson 0:15:41 Okay.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:15:41 Emergency loaf.

William Hanson 0:15:44 Should there be a problem, So, do you always have fresh bread in your house?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:15:47 Well, in the freezer.

William Hanson 0:15:49 No, no, no, but no, no, there's— that's not fresh, is it? Because you're fresh. It was once. Yeah, well, it was once. So were you.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:15:55 No, I always have fresh bread. Yeah, always.

William Hanson 0:15:57 Okay. And do you have a bread bin? Yes. Is it one of—

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:16:00 I don't really like the bread bin.

William Hanson 0:16:02 No, I don't like the bread bin.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:16:02 I think it's a bit common, but it's the best way of keeping your bread fresh.

William Hanson 0:16:06 And is it one with a rotating sort of curved front?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:16:10 Yeah, afraid so. Brabantia. Yeah, it is.

William Hanson 0:16:13 We used to have like a bread box thing with a removable lid that said helpfully on it, bread.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:16:18 Bread. Mine doesn't say that. No, it's just stainless steel, and I have my magnet clippers stuck on the side.

William Hanson 0:16:27 Lovely.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:16:27 Yeah, but I do always have a loaf of bread.

William Hanson 0:16:30 Now, if you were going for a sandwich, just sort of expanding our chat on bread to sandwiches, what do you What's your favourite filling in a sandwich?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:16:45 I have a sandwich every day.

William Hanson 0:16:48 Yes, you do for lunch, don't you?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:16:50 And I have the same sandwich.

William Hanson 0:16:52 I think I know it.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:16:53 Every day.

William Hanson 0:16:54 Cheese and tomatoes.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:16:55 Yes. I used to have ham and cheese.

William Hanson 0:16:59 Okay.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:17:00 But I decided for the sake of my bowels, To cut out the processed meat every lunchtime. So I went for processed cheese and tomato instead.

William Hanson 0:17:11 And that has less of an effect on your bowels?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:17:13 I'm not sure. But, um, I— no, I just thought, do you know what? I need to eat less ham. I'm eating ham every day. I need to eat less of it. I love ham. So I went to cheese and tomato. But I love a cheese and tomato. I think cheese and tomato is just a very good, high-quality sandwich filling.

William Hanson 0:17:31 dull.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:17:32 It is dull, but it's tasty.

William Hanson 0:17:33 And do you do, um, beef tomatoes or plum tomatoes or cherry tomatoes?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:17:37 Salad tomatoes.

William Hanson 0:17:38 Salad tomatoes.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:17:39 Like a salad tomato, yeah.

William Hanson 0:17:41 Okay, yeah, they're the only types. I don't like the bigger— the bigger the tomato gets, the less I like it. Less flavour. No.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:17:45 Yeah.

William Hanson 0:17:46 Um, beef and horseradish. That's my—

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:17:49 Oh, you devil.

William Hanson 0:17:50 Marks& Spencer's do— in fact, they do several beef and horseradish options. You can get the more luxury one. I just like the plain The plain one with quite heavily processed bread, I think, and beef and horseradish. Whereas you get more luxury sandwiches, no.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:18:06 I like a bacon, lettuce, and tomato. That's my— probably my favourite shop-bought sandwich.

William Hanson 0:18:16 I'm going off bacon as I get— in any form as I get older.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:18:20 Are you?

William Hanson 0:18:21 Unless it is so crispy. I'm finding I don't like and picking it out. I mean, I don't mind it, like, chopped up in things, like in rapid ragu.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:18:29 Oh, yeah.

William Hanson 0:18:30 With your lardons or that sort of thing. That's fine. Or bacon if you don't have lardons. But no, the more I just—

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:18:36 It's not your thing anymore?

William Hanson 0:18:39 Yeah, it's not my thing, which is a shame because it was also my nickname at school.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:18:41 Bacon?

William Hanson 0:18:42 Bacon. Yeah, that's my nickname. So, I don't— it's odd that I'm now going off it.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:18:46 There you go.

William Hanson 0:18:47 Garlic bread, with or without cheese?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:18:51 Oh, without cheese.

William Hanson 0:18:52 Oh.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:18:53 I think cheese with garlic bread, dare I say, a bit common. Is that what you like?

William Hanson 0:18:59 I do, yes.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:19:00 Of course you do.

William Hanson 0:19:00 Yeah.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:19:01 I like a garlic naan.

William Hanson 0:19:03 It's very Indian.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:19:05 Are you a lover of a naan?

William Hanson 0:19:07 I am a lover of a naan. Garlic naan or a peshwari naan.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:19:11 Peshwari, bit sweet.

William Hanson 0:19:12 Yeah, hello, have you met me?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:19:14 Oh yeah, you do like it sweet. Yeah, yeah. I like a plain naan. I think naan is, um, naan is a— actually, naan is a lovely bread.

William Hanson 0:19:23 Oh, yeah.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:19:24 I always enjoy a naan.

William Hanson 0:19:26 You can get at Dishoom a breakfast naan.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:19:30 Where?

William Hanson 0:19:31 Dishoom. It's an Indian restaurant, right? A chain of them in London, uh, and other places. I think there's one in Manchester as well. Um, you can get a breakfast naan, and that's particularly good.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:19:41 Really?

William Hanson 0:19:41 You can get sausages in between naan. They bacon. Oh, we should go.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:19:45 It sounds nice.

William Hanson 0:19:46 We should do a break. It is good.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:19:49 Yeah, yeah.

William Hanson 0:19:50 Egg and eggy naan.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:19:51 Lovely. Well, I used to get a, um, a bacon roll from Tim Hortons.

William Hanson 0:19:58 Have you ever been to Tim Hortons?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:19:59 No.

William Hanson 0:20:00 Now, this is the sort of Canadian Starbucks, isn't it?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:20:02 It's a Canadian McDonald's.

William Hanson 0:20:03 Oh.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:20:04 And, um, but I, I've recently had a big falling out with them. Because they've changed their bacon.

William Hanson 0:20:11 What?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:20:11 They've changed— they used to have in their bacon roll—

William Hanson 0:20:15 Yeah.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:20:15 They used to have good quality British back bacon, which as far as I'm concerned is the only bacon that should ever be served in a bacon sandwich or roll.

William Hanson 0:20:24 Okay.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:20:24 And they served this disgusting— you'd love it— disgusting sweet maple syrup bacon.

William Hanson 0:20:34 Well, it's Canadian.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:20:36 That's what they said to me. I said, you might be Canadian, but this is Britain. When I go for a bacon sandwich in Britain—

William Hanson 0:20:45 At a Canadian chain.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:20:46 I expect a high-quality British bacon in it. And they said, well, we're doing a trial with Canadian bacon. I said, well, I won't be back. I have not been back.

William Hanson 0:20:54 You have to go back to see if they're still doing it.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:20:57 I do not want Canadian bacon from my Canadian McDonald's. I want British bacon. I'm British. I want British bacon.

William Hanson 0:21:06 Backing Britain.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:21:08 Backing Britain with my back bacon. Yeah.

William Hanson 0:21:12 Have you ever made your own bread?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:21:14 I've got a bread maker.

William Hanson 0:21:16 Oh.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:21:17 In my loft.

William Hanson 0:21:18 Oh, I was gonna say.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:21:19 It's in the loft.

William Hanson 0:21:20 Yeah, various people have threatened me with a bread maker. I said no. A, space. Takes up a load of space. They do. And I just don't think it's— it's nice, but I don't think it's as nice as made properly.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:21:34 Oh no, William, come on. Come, come.

William Hanson 0:21:38 No.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:21:38 There's— you can buy, if you go to, um, oh well, Aldi or Lidl. Have you ever heard of them?

William Hanson 0:21:46 I've heard of them.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:21:48 They do, uh, pre-prepared bread mix in a bag. And you just kind of pour it into your bread maker with— I'm sure other supermarkets do it as well. And you put the water in, and then in my bread maker, there's a timer with a delay function. So you can set it for about 3 o'clock in the morning, and your bread maker will suddenly spring into action at 3 AM.

William Hanson 0:22:13 Hmm.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:22:13 Start kneading away, and by the time you come down in the morning, There's a lovely smell of freshly baked bread. There's a fresh loaf ready for you.

William Hanson 0:22:24 Yeah, but then it's got the funny— all the bread maker ones have that funny little insert in the bottom. They do.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:22:27 They have a big funny slot in the bottom. Yeah. But that doesn't destroy the flavour, and it's actually very nice.

William Hanson 0:22:34 But I never think it's as authentic as proper bread.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:22:37 Oh, it is. It's nice. And actually, I'll tell you something, I do think there is a luxury feel about it, because I've had guests before I've never done it for you. I don't know why, but I've had guests before. You're right. No, no, I've got my mouth open. Keeping you up, keeping you up. I've had guests before and I've put the bread maker on and I just think, oh, how nice, they're coming downstairs to freshly baked bread. Well, they must think, gosh, it's like this all the time at Vernon Smith Towers.

William Hanson 0:23:07 Well, why don't I borrow your bread maker if it's in your loft? You won't borrow it.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:23:11 Yeah, it could be fair.

William Hanson 0:23:11 I'm not going to go to Aldi or Lidl.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:23:13 The lid's broken, but it's fine. Oh, well then what, Jonathan?

William Hanson 0:23:15 I'm not gonna—

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:23:16 What's wrong with the lid being broken? It still works.

William Hanson 0:23:18 Well, what— how broken?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:23:20 Well, it snapped off.

William Hanson 0:23:22 So you just sort of manually—

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:23:23 Yeah, just put it on the top. What's wrong with that?

William Hanson 0:23:29 Right.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:23:31 Oh gosh.

William Hanson 0:23:32 No, no, no, we'll borrow it.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:23:34 Don't put yourself out, William. No, you'll like it. Honestly, you will.

William Hanson 0:23:38 Let's talk about sweetbreads, not just brioche and that sort of thing. Let's talk about—

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:23:43 Why do you call it brioche?

William Hanson 0:23:44 I don't know, it just sounds a bit more affectionate.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:23:47 Rodrigo, is it brioche?

Speaker F 0:23:48 Uh, I guess so. I don't know.

William Hanson 0:23:51 He says yes. It's basically a yes. Um, bread and butter pudding, I think, is so dull. It's only nice if it's a chocolate bread and butter pudding, which I've given you before. Uh, did I give you— I don't know if you've had that one, actually. Or a marmalade bread and butter pudding, or a whiskey— oh, whiskey and marmalade bread and butter pudding, I do.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:24:13 Delicious.

William Hanson 0:24:13 Or a panettone bread and butter pudding.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:24:15 Oh, nice.

William Hanson 0:24:15 But if you're doing classic bread and butter pudding, so, so dull.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:24:21 Oh.

William Hanson 0:24:22 Just my thoughts.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:24:24 Do you like a malt loaf?

William Hanson 0:24:25 Oh, what, Serene?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:24:27 Is it Serene? It's kind of very dark brown/black, and you slice it with a cup of tea.

William Hanson 0:24:32 Yeah, Grandma used to give us that. With butter on it. With a bit of butter on it, yeah.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:24:36 Lovely. I haven't had that for years and years. No.

William Hanson 0:24:38 I'd eat it. I wouldn't buy it, but I'd eat it.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:24:40 Do they still do it?

William Hanson 0:24:41 Yeah, I believe so.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:24:42 Oh, we should do one.

William Hanson 0:24:43 It's very Pond Court.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:24:45 Isn't it? When we're in Pond Court, should we have that every day with our cup of tea?

William Hanson 0:24:50 Okay, yeah.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:24:51 I think so. Get Dougie to bring us a slice.

William Hanson 0:24:53 And a Werther's.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:24:54 I better get that. It's probably— Warburtons. It's a Master Baker.

William Hanson 0:25:03 Yeah.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:26:57 Welcome back, Bucketheads. We've been discussing bread, and it's now time for your questions. So let's check out our heaving bags of post. If there's something on your mind that needs a luxury touch, postman@luxurypodcast.co.uk is the place for your queries and your questions. Also, a reminder, you can watch these episodes on Patreon if you join our Luxury Members Club. So just head over to luxurypodcast.co.uk to join.

William Hanson 0:27:24 And this first one is from Ella. Dear William and Jonathan, my question is, when did sourdough stop being luxurious? A few years ago, sourdough— you look very affronted. A few years ago, sourdough felt like the height of sophistication.

William Hanson 0:27:37 You didn't simply eat bread, you ate sourdough. It was the sort of bread that suggested you had opinions about wine, owned linen napkins, and probably knew what a small batch meant. Now, It's absolutely everywhere. Everyone is having smashed avocado on toasted sourdough. Cafés are offering sourdough sandwiches.

William Hanson 0:27:55 Supermarkets have entire shelves dedicated to it. You can barely order breakfast without someone asking whether you'd like your eggs on sourdough. And Instagram influencers seem to have completely abandoned cereal in favour of sourdough, avocado, and an aggressively expensive coffee. Has the luxury gone? Or is sourdough still the bread equivalent of driving a Range Rover?

William Hanson 0:28:14 Technically available to everyone, but still desperately trying to convince us it's exclusive. And if sourdough is now common, what is the next luxury bread? Are we heading towards some sort of artisanal, hand-fed, emotionally supported loaf that costs £17? Kindest regards, Ella Harvey from Leicestershire. I would agree.

William Hanson 0:28:33 I still think sourdough is perfectly nice, although sometimes I can find the sourdough crust, particularly if you're cutting through it—

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:28:38 Too hard?

William Hanson 0:28:39 Very hard. So actually, for things where you're using a knife and fork, such as avocado, smashed avocado on toast or whatever. I can find it, unless the avocado's made it go a bit soggy, which is actually helpful in that regard, yeah, I can find it very impractical for that sort of thing. But yeah, it is a bit commonplace now. Not necessarily common, but common. I don't think sourdough is common. No, but it's certainly prolific. It's not as exclusive as it used to be. No, it's the same as, can you remember, salted caramel? used to be a bit of a thing, and now it's everywhere.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:29:16 Has it become—

William Hanson 0:29:17 Biscoff, that's gone the same way as well.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:29:19 To quote you, utilitarian.

William Hanson 0:29:21 I think it has gone a bit utilitarian. Yes.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:29:25 There you go.

William Hanson 0:29:26 Wow.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:29:26 I still like it, though.

William Hanson 0:29:28 Oh, no, no, it is lovely. I don't quite know what then replaces it. What is above sourdough? I think maybe we'll just go back to more basic sort of staples.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:29:37 A rustic loaf.

William Hanson 0:29:39 Yes.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:29:39 For a better class of premises.

William Hanson 0:29:41 Tiger Bread.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:29:41 No, not Tiger Bread. Tiger Bread's not luxury, is it? I think it's because when I think of Tiger Bread, I just think of— I remember when it first kind of became fashionable, Morrison's just had loads of Tiger loaves.

William Hanson 0:29:58 Oh.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:29:58 And it just all looked kind of as if it was covered in egg yolk and cooked Do you know what I mean? It's got that kind of egg glaze on the top. Yeah, it's got an eggy glaze.

William Hanson 0:30:09 Yeah.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:30:09 I don't know that that looks luxury. Owen's been in touch, William.

William Hanson 0:30:13 Oh, yes.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:30:13 He says, hello, Jonathan and William. I am at war with my partner.

Speaker B 0:30:17 Oh.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:30:17 And I need your expertise to back me up on what I consider a deal breaker in our relationship. He insists on freezing all the bread. Like you. Not just the occasional burger bun, so it'll last for our next executive outdoor barbecue with executive features. Everything from the artisan sourdough loaf he buys— don't get me started, it's £15 for bread served by a moustached man in a flannel shirt from a shed at a market.

William Hanson 0:30:48 Do you want to talk to Ella?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:30:48 To Warburtons 50/50. Oh, I'm losing my mind. He says we won't eat the bread before it goes off, which does make sense, but I can't remember the last time I had a spontaneous sandwich without having to wait hours to defrost the bread beforehand. And I think we can all agree that's a horrific thought. My question to you is this: is this a silly, frankly common rule of his, or does his money-saving tips make sense? I look forward to your response, and I'll try not to throw his £15 loaf out of the window in the meantime. Owen, an insufferably proud member of the Members Club.

William Hanson 0:31:30 Oh, well, thank you. Lovely. Well, no, I mean, you'd— well, I'm sort of on— sorry, Owen, you're still going to be a member. I'm sort of on your partner's side, but you could— depends how big the loaf is and also what you're doing with your life that week. If you know actually you're going on holiday, or you're not going to be eating it as much, or you're on a diet or whatever, maybe cut the loaf in half, keep half of it out on the side in your bread bin or whatever, slice the rest, and freeze it.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:31:54 I think maybe the reason that I don't do it is because bread never lasts that long in my house. No, because I love bread. I love it. And if I'm not trying to watch the fat back, I can easily get through 2 loaves a week.

William Hanson 0:32:06 Wow. How big's the loaf?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:32:09 That big. Yeah, I can get through 2 of those a week.

William Hanson 0:32:16 That's sort of, what would you say? 10 inches?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:32:21 10 inches. I love, I love bread. I love, I'll tell you what I love.

William Hanson 0:32:28 Yeah.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:32:29 I love getting home from work, putting the kettle on, having a nice cup of tea, and a couple of slices of toast.

William Hanson 0:32:36 You see, Mikey got in from his mountainous holiday, and sort of— he suddenly was a bit peckish. And so, at half past 11, I was making him a piece of toast with some— just some butter on it.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:32:48 Yes. Post-pub toast. Oh, I love a post-pub toast. 2 AM toast, fantastic. I mean, I don't do it—

William Hanson 0:32:59 Cheese on toast, very nice.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:33:01 Cheese on toast, you devil! I love that on a Sunday evening. Yeah, Welsh rarebit. Well, it's kind of antiques roadshow toast, but—

William Hanson 0:33:09 Or as Jonathan just calls it, roadshow.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:33:12 How dare you! But in my younger years, I do remember those kind of 2 AM, you'd get home from a club, And, um, can't relate. You get home from a club and you think, oh, I need some toast. And then you just sit in the kitchen and eat toast. Love it. Great meal, toast. I had a little—

William Hanson 0:33:40 I got— when I got in slightly late, uh, recently, I had a cookie.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:33:43 Are you still doing that? Are you still having your little kind of midlife crisis? Are you? You go out at 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning?

William Hanson 0:33:51 In fact, it happened last Thursday.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:33:53 Really?

William Hanson 0:33:53 After our recording.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:33:54 Right. You went out clubbing?

William Hanson 0:33:57 Well, we went to have a dinner.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:33:58 Right.

William Hanson 0:33:59 Went to a luxury bar, actually.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:34:01 Right. And staggered home at what time?

William Hanson 0:34:04 I'd actually hired a hotel.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:34:06 Oh my God. Right.

William Hanson 0:34:08 So I could just leave the club and go across the street into the hotel.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:34:11 Okay. At what time?

William Hanson 0:34:13 2:30.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:34:14 2:30 in the morning, William, on a Thursday?

William Hanson 0:34:17 Yeah.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:34:17 going on with you? You all right?

William Hanson 0:34:19 Had great fun.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:34:20 But you can't have toast at 2:30 in the morning in a hotel, can you?

William Hanson 0:34:23 No, you can't. You could have a cookie. There's a cookie in the room.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:34:30 Oh dear.

William Hanson 0:34:32 Daniel says, very short question, I'd love to know what JVS and William think about a fish finger sandwich. We hate them. We don't like fish. Well, you know, you used— you said, didn't you say recently you could do a fish finger?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:34:43 I can do a fish finger as long as it doesn't taste of Fish. I, I think fish fingers generally don't taste of fish.

William Hanson 0:34:52 Is that because they don't have fish in them?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:34:53 Well, they do, but it's kind of cod, and cod is a very bland fish, isn't it? And I think the breadcrumbs can overpower the flavour of the fish, so you'd never know there's fish in there. But I wouldn't have a fish finger sandwich. No, I would— the only way I would have a fish finger would be 3. I'd have 3 of them.

William Hanson 0:35:14 Okay.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:35:15 And I'd have them with some mashed potato and some peas.

William Hanson 0:35:20 Oh, what? Um, hang on, what, peas in the sandwich? No.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:35:24 I'm not talking about a sandwich. This is just a luxury dinner. Oh, I see.

William Hanson 0:35:29 Okay, fine. A supper. Supper.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:35:30 Yeah.

William Hanson 0:35:31 You would have fish fingers? You see, you're weird.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:35:33 Well, I haven't for 20-odd years. Oh, okay. But I could do that.

William Hanson 0:35:37 If I put that in front of you now, I don't think you would eat it.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:35:39 I would, as long as they weren't high-quality fish fingers, because if they were high quality, they'd taste of fish. So they'd have to be low quality. Yeah.

William Hanson 0:35:49 Hmm.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:35:50 Okay, well, I used to eat a fish cake.

William Hanson 0:35:52 Well, I used to eat pink fish fingers.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:35:55 No, not the ones I bought. You'd never know they were fish. Very cheap.

William Hanson 0:36:00 It's from the I Can't Believe It's Not Fish range.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:36:06 Yeah, my mother used to give us this when we were children because I refused to eat fish, and she was always worried because she thought fish was good for us. So, I think she ended up giving us fish fingers and fish cakes because it was the only thing I would tolerate. So, but not in a sandwich.

William Hanson 0:36:23 No.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:36:24 Horrible.

William Hanson 0:36:25 No. Um, you do Catherine.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:36:27 Catherine says, which bread or bread products should be cut with a knife and which should be broken by hand. I saw something online that said you should use your knife to cut a bread roll.

William Hanson 0:36:43 What?

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:36:43 For example, with dinner at a restaurant. But why?

William Hanson 0:36:46 Catherine, I don't know what you saw, but report that account. Have it closed down. No, no, send me the video, Catherine, because I want to see it.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:36:54 You tear your roll, don't you?

William Hanson 0:36:56 All bread— most bread, when it is bread on its own, is broken by hand. There are historical reasons for that. There are religious reasons for it. There are also taste reasons for it because actually, same with— and actually, scones are the best thing to prove this point.

William Hanson 0:37:10 If you cut a freshly baked scone with a knife, you take away all the fluffiness from the scone because you're creating an even split, and a scone, it does not taste as nice as if you pull the scone apart into 2 and you keep the fluffiness. It will taste so much nicer. Bread roll is exactly the same. Just break a little bit off, butter it on the plate, eat. Or if you're Jonathan, dunk into your soup when you're at home on a Saturday lunchtime.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:37:32 If you're making a sandwich, though, from your roll, then you can cut it.

William Hanson 0:37:36 But that's in the kitchen, and that's using a serrated bread knife, a massive one. Yeah, you cut that, that's fine, and that's away from the table. But why you don't sort of cut bread at the table historically goes back because the knives you would use at table had traces of blood on them, and so you thus would break bread with your hands. That's where we get the practice of breaking bread. And Jesus, you know, remember him? He broke bread.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:37:57 No, not personally, no.

William Hanson 0:37:59 Oh, I thought you watched him. It's a joke. It's a joke. He broke bread with the disciples at the Last Supper. Yes. Admittedly, it didn't go brilliantly well for him after that, but he followed etiquette, so that was fine.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:38:12 Yeah, quite.

William Hanson 0:38:12 Died polite.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:38:13 Exactly.

William Hanson 0:38:15 So, yeah, you don't— I genuinely am fascinated to know what video you saw online that said you should use a knife to cut a bread roll. Use a knife to put the butter on, that's fine, but you're not cutting. The exception to that would be, let's say, like this morning, I had scrambled eggs on toast. I used a knife and fork. That's fine. An open sandwich, you can use a knife on bread. A burger, if you are having to cut it in half, that's fine. But beyond that, I can't really think of any reason why you need to use a knife on bread.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:38:42 There you go. You've been told, Catherine. Well, I think that's more than enough luxury for this episode. I mean, we will be back— I'm quite hungry now. Yes, I'm starving.

William Hanson 0:38:52 I am thinking I might text Mikey and say, shall we have an Indian? Because I'd like a naan.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:38:55 A naan? Oh, I thought you were going to say, let's have some toast.

William Hanson 0:38:58 No.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:38:58 No?

William Hanson 0:39:00 No, you see, I can't do toast in the evening. I think that's weird, unless it's cheese on toast.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:39:04 With a cup of tea. Oh, lovely. Nice cup of tea and a bit of toast. Lovely. Do you like Marmite on toast?

William Hanson 0:39:10 No, don't like Marmite.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:39:11 Peanut butter?

William Hanson 0:39:12 Nope.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:39:13 Aren't you funny?

William Hanson 0:39:14 I've got a very nice rhubarb and raspberry jam that I'm going through at the moment.

Jonathan Vernon-Smith 0:39:19 That's very nice. Well, that'll do for today. We will of course be back tomorrow for one of our luxury Bonus episodes. But until then, goodbye!