EP245: KATE BUTCH!

Natalie Cassidy 0:02:25 Well, well, well, on Life with Nat today we have a real treat. We have the wonderful Kate Butch.

Speaker A 0:02:33 Hiya.

Natalie Cassidy 0:02:34 Hello, love. How are you?

Speaker A 0:02:36 I'm very well, thank you. How are you?

Natalie Cassidy 0:02:38 I'm very, very good. I feel very excited, very honoured to have you on the pod.

Kate Butch 0:02:42 I'm honoured to be here.

Natalie Cassidy 0:02:44 And also, big apologies, and I have to say this, it's a— I've dropped, dropped a bollock, made a boo-boo, whatever you wanna say, but it was Pride Month and I didn't have any pride-iness about the month. So it's a little bit late, but you're here now, so there we go.

Kate Butch 0:03:02 That's okay, we can have Pride all year round.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:03 Well, absolutely, we sure can. Did you have a lovely Pride Month?

Kate Butch 0:03:07 It's too hot for Pride, I reckon. We shouldn't have Pride in the summer, it should be in like February or something.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:14 I think that's a good idea, or move it to sort of October.

Kate Butch 0:03:17 Yeah, yeah, and it's just a little bit cooler because we're in multiple pairs of tights, we've got wigs on.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:22 I've seen a lot of, you know, Beautiful festivals going on, but absolutely roasting, as you say, and you're all done up, looking beautiful, but I think, Jesus Christ, they must be hot.

Kate Butch 0:03:35 Yes, yes, absolutely. And nowhere has air conditioning or fans or anything. We've got to bring our own. I've got a tiny little fan, I don't know if you can see it, but it's, it's, it's doing nothing. Absolutely nothing at all.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:44 Nothing at all. Well, it's just hot air, isn't it? It's like being in a— in— this was funny, you'll like this. An Italian family member said to my niece, Aaliyah, you know the red brick, the bricks you use to build houses? We use those for pizza ovens only. And I thought, yeah.

Kate Butch 0:04:05 Yeah, makes sense. Oh yeah, it feels like I'm in an oven right now. I've got, I'm facing a window and I feel like I'm in a greenhouse, but—

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:13 Oh, stop it. There we go.

Kate Butch 0:04:14 Maybe I'll bloom into something beautiful.

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:16 Yeah. Hopefully. You're already blooming into something beautiful. Now the reason One of the reasons that I've got the lovely Kate on today, listeners, is because you do rather a funny thing about me, don't you?

Kate Butch 0:04:30 I, I do. I do. I'm, I'm always concerned every time. I'm like, is she gonna see this? Is she gonna be offended? Is she gonna hate it?

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:37 Never offended. Absolutely love it.

Kate Butch 0:04:39 Oh, good.

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:40 You know I like to take the piss out of myself. I am very happy for that. All from really the Morgana days, just doing this show.

Kate Butch 0:04:48 Oh. Let's just do this now.

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:49 Yeah.

Kate Butch 0:04:50 I love it. What I do, if people don't know, is every month I have a calendar of Sonya, and I do a thing called What Sonya Calendar.

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:01 Clever.

Kate Butch 0:05:01 Where first of the month, I flip it, and I see what Sonya of the month it is. And it's just, it's a joy to have you in my kitchen looking down on me.

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:09 I am so honoured. And this month, you've got 2, 'cause it's a mirror image, isn't it?

Kate Butch 0:05:14 It's a double Sonya.

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:16 Double Sonia.

Kate Butch 0:05:17 It's gorgeous. It's you in your vest for the hot summer months. And you look very summery, and you're having a lovely time. I'm a big fan.

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:29 Isn't it a funny thing? Why do you think, because people ask me this question, so let me ask you, why do you think Sonia has captured the community? What do you think it is?

Kate Butch 0:05:42 I think people love an underdog.

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:44 Yeah.

Kate Butch 0:05:45 And she's been through a lot. And I think a lot of LGBTQ people, myself included— I played the flute, I knew a lot of trumpeters, I was in the High Peak Wind Band, which I'm still trying to live down. But I think we love a trumpeting lesbian icon who has been through a lot and is coming out the other side fighting.

Natalie Cassidy 0:06:08 Well, she's living it up in Bali at the moment. I mean, who knows what's going down?

Kate Butch 0:06:11 Good for her. I'd love to live it up in Bali. Thank God she's packed a nice vest.

Natalie Cassidy 0:06:14 Well, absolutely. She didn't have time to pack. She was on the back of that speedboat quicker than you could say Bianca Jackson, and off they went together. Oh gosh. It was quite a funny one actually, because you had a little tiny baby. She'd given birth the week before, like you do, a couple of weeks before, baby Julia. And, um, I don't think Julia had a passport. We glazed over it. We glazed over it.

Kate Butch 0:06:37 Smuggling baby.

Natalie Cassidy 0:06:38 Well, it's soap, innit? It's all right.

Kate Butch 0:06:39 It's a way to come back, isn't it? Yeah. The baby's gonna get deported, and you're gonna have to come back with the baby.

Natalie Cassidy 0:06:44 Absolutely. When baby's about 18, probably.

Kate Butch 0:06:48 I do have a question. Do you want to see— do you want a sneak preview of August's?

Natalie Cassidy 0:06:54 Oh, yes, please.

Kate Butch 0:06:56 Do you want to? Should we do it together?

Natalie Cassidy 0:06:57 Oh, I would love to.

Kate Butch 0:06:58 Right, okay.

Natalie Cassidy 0:06:59 Sorry, my plant behind me, I've got a window open, and it seems to be so hot, it's keeling over.

Kate Butch 0:07:05 That's how I feel.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:06 Exactly. Honestly, the plant is how I feel.

Kate Butch 0:07:09 It's like you're in the rainforest. It's nice.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:12 Thank you.

Kate Butch 0:07:12 It's countrysidey. Right, okay, so we've got July. Are you ready to turn over?

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:17 I'm ready.

Kate Butch 0:07:17 To August, right. We've gotta say, what's on your calendar? August is— Oh my God! Oh! Is that a slapping of Pauline I see before me?

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:31 Incredible. Nearly got done for murder, didn't I?

Kate Butch 0:07:34 Yeah. Was this— was it Christmas?

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:37 It was Christmas.

Kate Butch 0:07:39 Oh.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:39 She's in her red frock. What's more Christmassy? Her red frock. I know. It's, um— there's a lot of anger in that. I don't want you to be in that kitchen every morning making a cup of tea, and that's— it's quite an angry picture there.

Kate Butch 0:07:52 I'm going to the Edinburgh Fringe for all of August. I won't actually see this, don't worry.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:56 Right, perfect. So tell me, tell me about your life. Tell me, I always love to ask this question of when was it, when did you know who you were and what you wanted to be? Because I had a lovely chat with Danny Beard a little while ago.

Kate Butch 0:08:11 Oh, lovely.

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:12 And you know, right from the off he said he just, you know, knew, knew what they wanted. knew that walking around in Mum's shoes was just, you know, comfortable, and that made them happy. Do you know what I mean?

Kate Butch 0:08:25 Yeah, yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:26 So, when was your turning point? You know, when was your point where you thought, I love this, this is what I wanna do?

Kate Butch 0:08:33 I think for me, it was in, I think, year 2 of primary school, and we were having the end-of-year show, and we were doing a pantomime, and they were really struggling to find someone to play the part of the Dame. And no one was volunteering, and it was just very awkward silence. And I'm a bit of a people pleaser, so I'm like, I'll take one for the team, and I will be the Dame. And they were like, are we sure? You're like, we can get one of the girls to do it.

Kate Butch 0:08:55 It's fine. You don't have to be the Dame. And I was like, no, we'll do it. No one wants to be the Dame, so I will put my hat in the ring, and I'll play the Dame. Yeah.

Kate Butch 0:09:02 And I remember getting the first couple of laughs in my first scene. And I know it was from the parents who were there, 'cause they have to laugh. But still, I was like, this— I quite enjoy this, putting on a wig and being silly.

Natalie Cassidy 0:09:13 Yeah.

Kate Butch 0:09:14 I didn't know it could be a job for a long time after that.

Natalie Cassidy 0:09:18 Yes.

Kate Butch 0:09:19 But I think that might have been when it clicked. Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:09:21 Yeah. That's fantastic, isn't it?

Kate Butch 0:09:23 I had this little water pistol, 'cause I had to come on crying 'cause my house had been destroyed or something. And I had it hidden in my handkerchief, and I remember spraying the audience with it very liberally. And they loved it. And I was like, this is— what life is all about.

Natalie Cassidy 0:09:38 Yeah, just being silly, making people laugh. I love it, I love it. I'm the same. I, I did my panto launch day on Monday, and it sort of makes it feel real. So I'm playing Wicked Queen, um, at Dunstable. Please come, I'll get you tickets.

Kate Butch 0:09:55 I will, I'll be there, front row.

Natalie Cassidy 0:09:56 Please come. Uh, but meeting everybody, meeting the Dame, lovely Will, and Ollie, who's kind of the Buttons character, and It was just such a fun day, and I thought, I cannot wait, actually. It's gonna be hard work, but I can't wait for those 6 weeks of just camp fun. And I'm not gonna be a wicked queen, not a miserable evil queen. I'm gonna be a very camp queen, you know?

Kate Butch 0:10:18 Being the villain is the best part, I reckon. I've not got to be a villain yet in my career, but one day.

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:22 Absolutely. And interestingly, when I was interviewed on Monday about the fact that I was playing a villain, I was looking up and thinking to myself, I don't think I've ever been a baddie, so I'm really looking forward to it.

Kate Butch 0:10:34 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:35 Be good fun.

Kate Butch 0:10:36 Will you be slapping? We get to do some slapping?

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:37 Not sure yet, not read the script.

Kate Butch 0:10:39 She's had her training, so special skills.

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:43 I'm a very good slapper. Say. So you are— you've just said off to the Edinburgh Fringe for the whole of August.

Kate Butch 0:10:55 The whole of August.

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:56 Have you done it before? What's it like? I have.

Kate Butch 0:10:59 I think this is maybe my 6th or 7th, maybe. Wow, okay. In various different guises. I started doing university improv when I was about 18, and I just got the bug, and I thought, I love to stand on cobbles, trying to convince people to come to my show, sleeping on a floor with 10 other people. It's the dream. It's what showbiz is all about, I think. But this time it's just me, a solo show.

Natalie Cassidy 0:11:28 Yes.

Kate Butch 0:11:29 I've done a couple of solo shows before. This one is called A Kate in the Hand Is Worth Two in the Butch.

Natalie Cassidy 0:11:33 Love it.

Kate Butch 0:11:34 Which— the way that I write a show is I think of the title first, and then try and shoehorn the content of the show around it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:11:40 Absolutely.

Kate Butch 0:11:40 And that's exactly what I've done here.

Natalie Cassidy 0:11:42 Brilliant.

Kate Butch 0:11:44 But it should be a lovely time. It's nice to have a routine, 'cause I think in my line of work, I don't often get a regular… job or regular gig.

Natalie Cassidy 0:11:51 No, of course.

Kate Butch 0:11:52 So it's nice to know where I'm going to be every, every day of the month.

Natalie Cassidy 0:11:55 Yeah, yeah. And in terms of being on your own on stage—

Kate Butch 0:12:01 Yes.

Natalie Cassidy 0:12:02 Does it not— I'm— I think about stand-up a lot. I talk about stand-up. I'm obsessed with stand-up and people that stand on their own really on the stage. Do you not get nervous? Did you— do you not— do you not worry that you You're just on your own, you've got no one to fall back on? 'Cause I find that amazing.

Kate Butch 0:12:20 I do sometimes. The main thing I'm worrying about is that I'm gonna fall over in my heels. Yeah. But I try and mix it up a bit, 'cause I think I'd get bored if I did exactly the same show every single day. And a lot of it is the same, but I like to involve the audience a little bit, just have a chat with them, find out what's going on with them.

Kate Butch 0:12:37 And that sort of breaks the routine, and it's not all on me. I can turn to the audience and maybe— Take the piss outta them a bit, or find out what they had for their dinner, what games they've got on their phone. So, I like the attention being mainly on me, 'cause I'm a textbook narcissist.

Natalie Cassidy 0:12:50 Yeah.

Kate Butch 0:12:51 But occasionally I will— I'll let other people have a go. Once or twice.

Natalie Cassidy 0:12:56 Very good.

Kate Butch 0:12:58 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:12:58 So if I was in the audience now, come and do a bit. Do a bit with me.

Kate Butch 0:13:01 Oh, what's— oh, oh. The bit that I have in this show is finding out what's your top meal deal? What's your go-to meal deal? Are you a meal deal connoisseur, please? That's my main question. Are you not bobbing down Tesco for a—

Natalie Cassidy 0:13:15 I'm gonna have to say no.

Kate Butch 0:13:17 That's fine, that's fine.

Natalie Cassidy 0:13:18 I'm not a meal deal person, really.

Kate Butch 0:13:20 That's okay, that's okay. You've made it. You don't need to be. Things aren't going great for me, so I'm going down Tesco for a meal deal every day.

Natalie Cassidy 0:13:28 What's yours?

Kate Butch 0:13:31 Sometimes a sushi, if I'm feeling bold.

Natalie Cassidy 0:13:33 Yeah.

Kate Butch 0:13:34 Little bit brave. I think you've gotta get the most expensive things in the meal deal. That's the game of the meal deal, to get it all down to the £3. £2.80 or whatever it is now. Uh, so you want a big smoothie or a big juice because they're a bit pricey. And then maybe a pot of olives just to feel a bit fancy, like you're in the Mediterranean in the summertime.

Natalie Cassidy 0:13:50 Yes, it is. To me, that's not a meal deal. Meal deal's sandwich, packet of crisps, can of Coke.

Kate Butch 0:13:56 Well, it's a different world now, you see. Yeah, it's—

Natalie Cassidy 0:14:01 you learn something new every day.

Kate Butch 0:14:02 A lot of people like egg mayo, which I can't get on board with.

Natalie Cassidy 0:14:07 I'll tell you what, I don't mind it, but when the weather's like this— It's not okay. No, I'm sorry, it's not okay. You can't be wandering around with an egg mayonnaise sandwich. I don't want to know you.

Kate Butch 0:14:18 In this heat on the tube?

Natalie Cassidy 0:14:20 It's making me heave.

Kate Butch 0:14:20 Oh, I can feel my lash. Can you see my lash already falling off in this heat? I've had it on for about 10 minutes. No. And it's already— it's dwindling.

Natalie Cassidy 0:14:31 You look amazing. Honestly beautiful.

Kate Butch 0:14:34 If I look a bit lazy-eyed, it's not because of my actual eyes, it's just because of the, the spiders I've glued to my face.

Natalie Cassidy 0:14:40 How long does that take you to get ready? You know, how quickly can you do it?

Kate Butch 0:14:45 I like to give myself about an hour and a half all in. Yeah, uh, which is quite good. I can do it in about 45 minutes if I have to. Um, I think my problem is I really don't like being in drag, so I try and get it on as quickly as possible.

Natalie Cassidy 0:14:57 Really? As quickly as possible. That's interesting.

Kate Butch 0:15:01 Maybe it's just in this heat 'cause of the weather, but I think the makeup isn't my favourite thing. I know there's a lot of drag queens who, doing the makeup is the main bit for them, and they can take 4 hours, but I'm— Have you not got anything on in the daytime? 4 hours out of your day to do that? I'm—

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:17 Yeah.

Kate Butch 0:15:17 I'm too busy. I'm doing things. I'm watching Little House on the Prairie. I can't—

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:22 You've got stuff to do, yeah.

Kate Butch 0:15:24 I am busy. But I— I could do it in a very short amount of time if I have to.

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:29 It does look really great though. It's lovely.

Kate Butch 0:15:32 Thank you. It's because there's a Zoom filter right now. Oh, fine. If you could see me without the filter— oh god, I'm so— I can feel it. I can feel it running.

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:38 Maybe I should have a Zoom filter.

Kate Butch 0:15:41 Oh, you don't need one. My lashes come off. I'm sorry, I'm being vulnerable on the podcast. Do you—

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:46 listen, do your lashes— Should I take them both off?

Kate Butch 0:15:47 Should I take them both, or should I put them back on? I don't know if it's gonna work. Stop here. Just, just the tricks of the trade.

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:55 Right.

Kate Butch 0:15:55 Oh no, it's come off. It's come off. Should I just— should I be vulnerable and do a reveal of both of them?

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:59 Just do it.

Kate Butch 0:16:00 We'll even it out. See, that's— yeah. Oh. It's not meant to be.

Natalie Cassidy 0:16:03 There we go. Oh god!

Kate Butch 0:16:05 She's got bald eyelids!

Natalie Cassidy 0:16:06 No, she looks lovely. Honest.

Kate Butch 0:16:09 Thank you. Thank you.

Natalie Cassidy 0:19:01 How many wigs you got?

Kate Butch 0:19:05 Oh, huge question. They're all scattered around my life. Yeah. I'd say maybe about 10 or 12 that I use in normal rotation. And then a couple that maybe I bought special for Drag Race or something, and then haven't worn since, 'cause they were a specific wig for a specific thing.

Natalie Cassidy 0:19:24 How many years ago did you do Drag Race?

Kate Butch 0:19:27 So I've done it twice now, 'cause I can't get enough of being critiqued by RuPaul. I love it. It's like heroin.

Natalie Cassidy 0:19:36 Gimme more, gimme more!

Kate Butch 0:19:38 I did it in 2023, the first time round.

Natalie Cassidy 0:19:41 Yes.

Kate Butch 0:19:41 And then I did a series that came out at the start of this year that I filmed last year. Um, so yeah, it's still kind of fresh in my memory. The trauma is still, still raw.

Natalie Cassidy 0:19:53 Yeah. Great thing to do though.

Kate Butch 0:19:56 Oh, it was a lovely time.

Natalie Cassidy 0:19:57 It's just a brilliant, brilliant thing to be a part of. Everybody I know who's done it just absolutely loved it.

Kate Butch 0:20:03 It's fab. Have you done it?

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:04 I did it in fucking COVID, so I was at home. They need to get me in. Yeah, I was absolutely devastated. That's not right. Well, I was at home and I did a little Zoomy thing like this and with all the, you know, queens, and then I thought, oh, I'll go, I'll get in the studio soon, and not been asked back. Rude.

Kate Butch 0:20:27 They need you there. Right, RuPaul, I know RuPaul's watching. RuPaul, get Nat Cass on, please, imminently.

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:35 I think, I think it, I think it's very rude that I've not been back.

Kate Butch 0:20:38 It's what you deserve.

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:38 It is!

Kate Butch 0:20:40 They've had blooming Jade from Little Mix has done it 3 times.

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:43 Please don't upset me. Not, not, I've got nothing against Jade, but I don't want to hear it.

Kate Butch 0:20:48 She's a lovely gal, but 3 times is too many now.

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:51 It's a lot, it's a lot.

Kate Butch 0:20:52 It's greedy, it's getting greedy.

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:54 When you did it, did you notice a real change in your career from doing it? Was that a springboard? You know, was it a great platform to be on?

Kate Butch 0:21:02 Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So I've done shows at the Edinburgh Fringe and tried to hustle my stand-up stuff going on.

Natalie Cassidy 0:21:08 Yes.

Kate Butch 0:21:09 And it would be fine, it would not be a room full of people, but now, like, people are coming to watch me.

Natalie Cassidy 0:21:15 Yeah, it's amazing.

Kate Butch 0:21:16 People have chosen to come and see me 'cause they've seen me on the telly. It's still something that I'm trying to, reconcile with in my brain. Yeah. I wouldn't come and see me, but I'm very glad that other people are.

Natalie Cassidy 0:21:25 I don't know why you are not more, you know, believe in yourself, Kate. What's going on here?

Kate Butch 0:21:30 I think it's 'cause I'm northern. I'm very humble, or I'm just very self-deprecating.

Natalie Cassidy 0:21:37 But that is— it is lovely, though. It's lovely. It is very nice to be humble, but you should also— you're very talented, you know, and extremely funny, so…

Kate Butch 0:21:47 Most drag queens are absolute bastards, so I'm trying to be a bit different and branch out and be a bit more… be very self-loathing, right?

Natalie Cassidy 0:21:54 Okay.

Kate Butch 0:21:55 And just have that as my own niche because there's so many of us now. And every— like, there's been, what, 70 drag queens on Drag Race? You need to stand out from the pack by— yeah, hating yourself.

Natalie Cassidy 0:22:05 Is it quite stressful, the competition? Oh, definitely. I'm trying to think about how I would feel if— because again, I know that I'm an actress or a personality or whatever, but I feel like I'm very fortunate because people have grown up with me and I've been around for so long, 30, over 30 years, whatever.

Natalie Cassidy 0:22:24 I have my own niche because of that, really, just because I was on EastEnders for all that time and people know me as Sonia and love me as that. But I never sort of think, oh, I don't know, if I've got social media campaigns, things like that, I never go online and think, oh, what's Vicky Pattison up to? Or, oh, Emma Willis is doing that. I never feel— No. a jealousy towards anybody, 'cause I think everybody's in their own lane.

Kate Butch 0:22:46 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:22:47 Whereas for you, there's, like you said, there's, it's quite specific, and people are trying to do the same thing in a way, although you're all very different.

Kate Butch 0:22:56 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:22:57 Does that, is that stressful?

Kate Butch 0:22:58 I don't find it super stressful, 'cause I think that I do stuff that not many people do. Like, there's not many drag queens that do stand-up and write and— Yeah. I do calendar reveals every month. Just talk about the mugs that they've got in their cupboard. I think they can be— for the people that do— are very much into their makeup and their—

Natalie Cassidy 0:23:23 Yeah.

Kate Butch 0:23:23 Performing, they do the club gigs. It can be quite stressful, 'cause I think a lot of the drag gigs are dwindling, actually, at the moment.

Natalie Cassidy 0:23:30 Really?

Kate Butch 0:23:30 Yeah, it's just not as lucrative as it used to be. I think it's possibly 'cause of maybe the rise of— certain political parties and people feeling certain ways. But it'll come back, I'm sure. In a way, it's all cyclical, isn't it? It all goes round on a wheel. But I think I'm quite lucky that for a long time, I've tried to make my own opportunities and write my own shows and do something like— I've started writing a book, just in case. Did you? If everything goes away tomorrow in real-life performance, I can go and— Finish the book, and hopefully that'll be alright.

Natalie Cassidy 0:24:07 Is it a fiction book or autobiographical? Yes. No, fiction. You're doing a fiction? It's a fiction book.

Kate Butch 0:24:12 It's about a drag queen from Yorkshire. So it's a little bit autobiographical. But who fights demons. It's a bit like Buffy meets Hetty Wainthrop Investigates meets Drag Race.

Natalie Cassidy 0:24:23 Well, I think that sounds amazing, because you know the dragon stuff goes down well.

Kate Butch 0:24:27 Yeah, fantasies go wild at the moment, isn't it? It's a sales— That and hockey people, isn't it? I've not seen the hockey TV. Is it heated rivalry? I've not seen it, but I've seen that people are very into it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:24:37 Each to their own. Because they get their bums out. Oh, is it?

Kate Butch 0:24:41 There won't be any nudity in my book.

Natalie Cassidy 0:24:42 I don't believe you.

Kate Butch 0:24:44 I'll write a scene in for you.

Natalie Cassidy 0:24:46 I'm not one, actually. I'm not a prude at all in my own home with my own partner. No problem. But in terms of watching stuff and reading stuff, I'm not— it doesn't really do it for me. It's not really bothered me.

Kate Butch 0:25:05 It's not for me. I remember during lockdown, I moved back in with my parents, and we watched the first season of Bridgerton when it came out. And there's— oh, there's a lot. There's a lot on Bridgerton, a lot of bums.

Natalie Cassidy 0:25:16 Well, again, I watched a bit of that. I watched a bit of that and thought, oh, it's not for me.

Kate Butch 0:25:19 I was with my parents watching it. It was a living nightmare.

Natalie Cassidy 0:25:23 Yeah, no, it's, it's the most embarrassing thing, isn't it, when sex comes on the telly with mum and dad? Not good. Mine are both dead now, so I don't have that problem, actually.

Kate Butch 0:25:32 But, um, I'm sorry to laugh.

Natalie Cassidy 0:25:33 No, you have to laugh. You gotta laugh, you know. You have to. Yeah, the positives of things.

Kate Butch 0:25:39 Mine keep coming to my shows where I talk about absolute filthy business.

Natalie Cassidy 0:25:43 Oh, but that's lovely because they're supporting.

Kate Butch 0:25:45 That is nice, but I don't need them to hear about what I've been up to with the brother of my childhood bully.

Natalie Cassidy 0:25:51 That's true.

Kate Butch 0:25:51 It's my own little revenge on him.

Natalie Cassidy 0:25:58 Are you, um, in love? Single? Flaunting it about? What are you doing?

Kate Butch 0:26:04 I'm, I'm single and I'm trying to flaunt it about, but I don't— no one's, no one's taking.

Natalie Cassidy 0:26:08 Oh.

Kate Butch 0:26:09 It's too— I'm too hot for a relationship right now. No, that's true. I'll do it in November or something.

Natalie Cassidy 0:26:15 Yeah, no, that's fine. Wrap up, scarf, boots, nice heels.

Kate Butch 0:26:18 Poppy Day. That's the time to absolutely properly clear up.

Natalie Cassidy 0:26:22 Not very sexy, is it, Poppy Day, though? I reckon. Not sure.

Kate Butch 0:26:26 It's a bit sombre. People are vulnerable though, aren't they? They're in a sad mood. They need cheering up. And what can cheer you up more than anything? Little old me, popping round.

Natalie Cassidy 0:26:35 You've just done your Choose Your Own Cabaret tour. How'd that go?

Kate Butch 0:26:41 Yes. It was fabulous. It was lovely. Yeah. Like I was saying about getting bored on the stage, just 'cause it's me, I had a lovely pianist, the lovely pianist with a T, Jordan Paul Clarke, he's very nice. And we had a little time on stage, and I got the audience to choose their own cabaret. So I gave them the songs to choose from. We'd do specific songs for specific venues.

Natalie Cassidy 0:27:00 Oh, that's fab.

Kate Butch 0:27:01 And people would suggest their favourite songs. Yeah, so it was a different show every night, and—

Natalie Cassidy 0:27:04 That's great. I think I would've gone a bit mad. Can I just say something about that, if you don't mind?

Kate Butch 0:27:07 Please.

Natalie Cassidy 0:27:09 I've been told you can't really play songs and music without paying for it.

Kate Butch 0:27:15 Yeah, legally.

Natalie Cassidy 0:27:16 Fine. But then who's— I suppose so. Who's gonna know?

Kate Butch 0:27:19 Who's gonna know? I did— the last show I did was called Wuthering Shites, and it was all about the music of Kate Bush. And I had to pay her quite a bit of money.

Natalie Cassidy 0:27:30 Did you?

Kate Butch 0:27:31 And I was like, you've got money from Stranger Things. Running Up That Hill's just come back in a big way. You don't need my money.

Natalie Cassidy 0:27:37 That's true.

Kate Butch 0:27:38 I'm a struggling artist. Let me have it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:27:40 But then if your whole show is around that—

Kate Butch 0:27:44 It was quite a lot of, a lot of her songs.

Natalie Cassidy 0:27:46 Yeah. Can't get away with it.

Kate Butch 0:27:48 Yeah. What does she need the money for? She's living in a fairy ring in Wiltshire. She's not doing anything. She's not going— she's not leaving the house. She don't need it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:27:57 How old's she now?

Kate Butch 0:27:58 I think she must be in her— oh, I can do, I can do the maths on this, 'cause she was— Go on. I hate my facts about Kate Bush. I think she was 18 in 1978 when Wuthering Heights came out.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:08 Right, okay.

Kate Butch 0:28:09 So what, she was born 1960, so she's late 60s, I reckon.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:13 Fair enough, fair enough. Yeah. Still a young chicken. It's good. Yeah. Yeah.

Kate Butch 0:28:18 I love her, bless her.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:19 Yeah, amazing. My brother went to see her.

Kate Butch 0:28:22 I wish, I wish I'd seen her that, that time when she came back. Yeah. I wish I'd been, but I, I didn't.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:27 He said it was stupendous, said it was amazing. Yeah, really good.

Kate Butch 0:28:31 My best fact is that she invented the wireless microphone.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:35 Stop it.

Kate Butch 0:28:35 You know the one that everyone calls the Britney mic or the Madonna mic? Yeah. It's the Kate Bush mic, because she was the first person to sing and dance around while she was doing so on her tour.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:43 Really?

Kate Butch 0:28:44 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:44 Oh, that's a great fact. I love that.

Kate Butch 0:28:47 She's an inventor.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:48 I don't mind those mics, but I prefer to have a mic in my hand.

Kate Butch 0:28:53 You'll have to get used to it for your panto.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:55 I know, that's true. Yeah, maybe they'll do one in the front.

Kate Butch 0:28:59 Sometimes they do it in In the— in your wig.

Natalie Cassidy 0:29:01 Oh yeah, maybe.

Kate Butch 0:29:03 It looks a bit like you've got some kind of blister forming in your hairline.

Natalie Cassidy 0:29:06 Mm.

Kate Butch 0:29:07 But they're quite good.

Natalie Cassidy 0:29:08 No, it's very good, very good. Marvellous.

Kate Butch 0:29:12 And think of Kate Bush as you're being a wicked queen.

Natalie Cassidy 0:29:15 Yeah, I don't know who I'm gonna channel. I was— my outfit's lovely. Obviously I've got a few changes which I'm excited about. I've got the, uh, very, very tight— the Dancers' tights, they go on first, don't they? And then you put the fishnets on. Oh, it's lovely. It holds you all in, doesn't it? Fantastic. And then it's kind of velvet, sparkly. There's red, black, purple all in there.

Kate Butch 0:29:39 Oh, we love that.

Natalie Cassidy 0:29:39 But it's like a bodice, and that's quite, it zips up at the back. And then I've got a big skirt, which has got a big slit down the front, and I've got these little boots with sparkles on. It's really, yeah, I'm looking forward to getting dressed up every day. That's amazing. That'll last about 4 days. I'll be sick of it.

Kate Butch 0:29:54 Are you doing the one like where you have like 3 shows a day?

Natalie Cassidy 0:29:58 We've only got a couple of days with 3 shows. The rest are 2s.

Kate Butch 0:30:01 I couldn't do it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:30:03 3s are hard.

Kate Butch 0:30:04 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:30:05 But you do 'em for the schools.

Kate Butch 0:30:07 The only pantos I've done are adult pantos, so they've only been in the evenings.

Natalie Cassidy 0:30:11 Yeah.

Kate Butch 0:30:11 And I just, I don't think I could manage 10 AM.

Natalie Cassidy 0:30:16 10 AM, yeah, there's a couple of those for the schools.

Kate Butch 0:30:19 I think I'd accidentally call a child something horrible.

Natalie Cassidy 0:30:27 You gotta do it. I mean, it's very special, panto, I think, because I think it's a child's first peek into live theatre. A lot of the time it's their first experience. So you wanna make it the best you can for them. And, you know, so they wanna come back into theatres. 'Cause again, another thing is so expensive, isn't it? Theatre.

Kate Butch 0:30:47 Yeah. So expensive.

Natalie Cassidy 0:30:49 And it's, you know, the haves and the have-nots, as I like to say. You know, it all needs to be changed. It's ridiculous. You know, you want to go and see a musical now in the theatre with the kids, it's— with a good seat so you can see it, you're talking about £600. That's without travel, without a bite to eat. You know, it's a fucking holiday.

Kate Butch 0:31:09 I used to do— when I was a teenager, me and my mum would come down for a week in London and we'd be able to go and see quite a lot of things. Like, we'd see maybe like a show a night for a week, and it, it wasn't too extortionate. But now it's, it's wild.

Natalie Cassidy 0:31:24 It is. It's wild for people. It's wild. That's why I'm really pleased. I love the fact that they do kind of the Royal Opera House and the National Theatre, they do the cinema screenings now, don't they?

Kate Butch 0:31:34 Yes.

Natalie Cassidy 0:31:34 Which I think are great because that's, you know, accessible for people. I know you're not in the room, but at least people are feeling that they're not missing out. They can have a conversation about what's going on. I think they're really good. Really, really good. Good for me. What's your goal? Have you got any goals at the moment? Things that you'd really, you know, that you look at, you're manifesting? Anything that you think, right, that's what I'd like to be doing next year? Or— I'm always interested in people's thoughts.

Kate Butch 0:31:58 There's a few. There's a few that I'd like to do. Yeah. I've tried to keep my fingers in a lot of pies. I would— I don't think they've ever had a drag queen on Live at the Apollo. I might be wrong, but I don't think they have.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:11 I think you're right. Em? Emma, producer? Emma, Emma. Emma, Emma, I bet Emma will know.

Speaker E 0:32:18 No, I don't think so, but I can give it a Google, won't we?

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:20 Have a little look, have a little look. That's a great shout.

Kate Butch 0:32:23 'Cause that would be lovely. Hopefully the right people come to the Edinburgh show, and then they put me in that, that'd be nice. Yeah. I've got a couple of TV things that I've got ideas for and scripts for, things that I've written. Smoggy Queens is the one drag queen-based sitcom.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:38 Yes.

Kate Butch 0:32:39 And I think there could be more. There could be plenty more. I'd love to do a travel programme as well. I'd love to go around all the gay places in the UK. Oh, me and you.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:50 Me and you.

Kate Butch 0:32:51 Let's do it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:52 Oh, Amanda and Alan, see you later.

Kate Butch 0:32:55 Oh. Better luck next time. Can you drive?

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:58 Yes.

Kate Butch 0:33:00 I can't drive, so I'm looking for someone who can.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:02 I can drive. I'm fine driving.

Kate Butch 0:33:04 Fabulous. I'll do the playlist and I can navigate a bit.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:08 Oh, it'd be fantastic.

Kate Butch 0:33:10 I think we should make this happen.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:11 I have— I'm gonna— my cogs are turning, but I've got—

Kate Butch 0:33:13 I'll talk to my people, you talk to your people.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:15 I've got a couple of people that I can, uh, mention it to, but wouldn't that be fantastic? And what, go travelling around the UK, going to all of the gay places?

Kate Butch 0:33:23 I think, yeah, yeah. And see, see what they've got. Go to like the RVT, and there's places in Wales, there's Hebden Bridge. We get— I think we'd have a lovely time in Hebden Bridge. Oh, I've never been. Oh, it's where all the lesbians live.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:35 Oh, fantastic. Yeah. Oh, I think— yeah, I think we're on to something there.

Kate Butch 0:33:41 I think we'll— but yeah, no one steal this idea though, we're copyrighting it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:44 That's the only thing. Yeah, cut to— it'll be, it'll be cut to Amanda again and someone else, or probably Tia Coffey.

Kate Butch 0:33:54 She's always taking the things.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:55 Oh yeah, she's a busy lady. She's great though, she's great. Oh, she's brilliant.

Kate Butch 0:34:01 We talked about doing Only Connect, me and her.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:03 How fucking hard is Only Connect?

Kate Butch 0:34:07 It's tricky. It's tricky.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:08 It's a great one though.

Kate Butch 0:34:09 We've both won Mastermind, me and Tia. But I don't think that is in the same league as the difficulty of Only Connect. We printed out the form, but it was too difficult. We just didn't bother.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:20 What was your subject on Mastermind?

Kate Butch 0:34:24 On Mastermind, it was the Shrek films. Brilliant. Yeah. I've got every single question right.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:30 That's fantastic. Mine was, when I went on, I did Friends, the sitcom. Yes.

Kate Butch 0:34:39 The whole thing?

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:40 Exactly. I fucked it.

Kate Butch 0:34:42 That's too much.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:43 I fucked it.

Kate Butch 0:34:44 I was— I wanted to do Tracy Beaker, but they told me that there was too many episodes of Tracy Beaker.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:49 Right.

Kate Butch 0:34:50 So I had to— I did Trek, that was 4 films, and that was pretty easy to revise. But yeah, all of Friends.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:55 I was young and arrogant, and I went on and I failed terribly. It was awful. Terrible viewing.

Kate Butch 0:35:01 So what would you do now if you were doing it now?

Natalie Cassidy 0:35:03 Specialist subject. Do you know what? I think with my brain, I love everything so much. There's not one thing I, I, I sort of— I know everything and nothing. Do you know what I mean?

Kate Butch 0:35:18 Same. I've got so many useless, useless facts about Cambridge microphones.

Natalie Cassidy 0:35:22 But, you know, there'll be something I really get into, and I'm like, oh, it's amazing, and I wanna learn all about it. And then I'll go on to the next thing and on to the next thing.

Kate Butch 0:35:29 So I don't know why you can't go on and be like, I would like to do as a specialist subject the life and career of Natalie Cassidy.

Natalie Cassidy 0:35:35 That would be good. Do your own one. Sonia Fowler. I wouldn't know. I wouldn't fucking know. People say things to me now and I'm like, I don't remember doing that.

Kate Butch 0:35:43 Shout out to the youngsters.

Natalie Cassidy 0:35:44 It is an interesting one because you're there for so long and because you're lying. I don't know if you've ever done this where you've learnt anything, but yours is more personal, but line learning, what I find, because my brain is trained— the brain is a muscle, we train the brain— I used to learn, learn, learn, chuck it away immediately to learn the next thing.

Kate Butch 0:36:05 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:36:05 And I think my memory is like that. I haven't got a great memory because I think I chuck things away. It's just used to doing that.

Kate Butch 0:36:12 You've got to if you're doing it every day. You've got to go through it so quickly.

Natalie Cassidy 0:36:15 To the point where once We'd done a scene, and they go, okay, check it. It's clear. And then I walked off set, and they were like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on, come back. No, that's not clear. We've gotta do it again. And I had to relearn the scene that quickly. That quickly.

Kate Butch 0:36:33 I don't think I could do that. I think I'd— I'm good at learning lines, but I would retain them for too much, and then my brain would be too full of yesterday's lines.

Natalie Cassidy 0:36:42 I see what you mean. I mean, doing panto, I'm bricking it, because I haven't been on a stage in a theatre production for a very long time. I've only ever done one panto, and that was when Eliza was about 2 or 3. So we're going back 13 years, what have you. So I'm bricking it, but I wanted to do it to, just to prove to myself that I can do it. But I am worried about the lines. I am worried. I think you'll get there.

Kate Butch 0:37:07 If you're doing it multiple times a day, eventually you'll— and no one else knows the script apart from you.

Natalie Cassidy 0:37:12 No, that's true.

Kate Butch 0:37:13 The audience don't know what's going on.

Natalie Cassidy 0:37:14 No. And it's panto and it's fun. And, yeah, but I shall do my best. I'll do my best. It's— you've got to challenge yourself, haven't you? It's important.

Kate Butch 0:37:22 Absolutely. Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:37:23 You get bored otherwise, don't you?

Kate Butch 0:37:25 What would be your dream role if you were to go into a, like, a musical or a play?

Natalie Cassidy 0:37:29 Oh, Nancy Oliver.

Kate Butch 0:37:30 Oh, I'd pay good money to see that.

Natalie Cassidy 0:37:33 Nancy Oliver.

Kate Butch 0:37:34 I'd be there every night.

Natalie Cassidy 0:37:35 You've got to have a good voice though, haven't you? That's the problem.

Kate Butch 0:37:40 I don't know. It's about the characterisation. I'm rewatching—

Natalie Cassidy 0:37:44 As long as he needs me. Yeah.

Kate Butch 0:37:49 That was great.

Natalie Cassidy 0:37:50 Thank you.

Kate Butch 0:37:50 Sold. We'll do a production. I'll be Oliver, 'cause I, for a long time as a child, I was trying to be Oliver, and I was a cute, blonde, angelic child, and it never happened for me. I auditioned for multiple things. I auditioned for— do you remember I'd Do Anything, the Andrew Lloyd Webber?

Natalie Cassidy 0:38:05 Yes.

Kate Butch 0:38:05 I auditioned for that. I was too tall.

Natalie Cassidy 0:38:07 Oh.

Kate Butch 0:38:08 6'4. But they didn't want me. I'm rewatching that now, and it's an amazing TV show. It's the best reality TV ever.

Natalie Cassidy 0:38:19 I need to have a look at that.

Kate Butch 0:38:21 When they get eliminated, the Dorothy one's the best, where they get eliminated and they have to give him their shoes.

Natalie Cassidy 0:38:25 Cam.

Kate Butch 0:38:27 And get up on the moon and sing Over the Rainbow as they get pulled up into the rafters. I don't know what happened. Maybe they just get taken round the back of the shop, but—

Natalie Cassidy 0:38:34 Just stay there.

Kate Butch 0:38:35 That's just— They're just hanging Dorothy's.

Natalie Cassidy 0:38:39 If you go back there now, they're just there.

Kate Butch 0:38:41 Still there. I chuck up some food for them occasionally. It's— I would recommend a rewatch. It's fabulous.

Natalie Cassidy 0:38:49 Oh, I will. I'll have a look.

Natalie Cassidy 0:41:41 Your, um, television tastes sound super. We've had Little House on the Prairie, Tracy Beaker, Fantastic. It's all coming out now. It's eclectic.

Kate Butch 0:41:55 I've not watched a modern TV series ever in my life.

Natalie Cassidy 0:41:58 You never watch anything?

Kate Butch 0:41:59 No, I don't really watch anything as it comes out. I'll watch something from the '80s or the '70s and call it a day.

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:05 There's something about— I find television very stressful these days.

Kate Butch 0:42:10 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:10 The most modern thing that I've really enjoyed is Rivals. Have you seen any Rivals?

Kate Butch 0:42:17 Oh, I did like Rivals, yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:18 'Cause it was fun and raunchy. And again, I'm, again, a total hypocrite because that's got a bit of sexy stuff in it. But again, I just feel like it's, it is what it is. It's fun, it's raunchy, it's camp, and I really enjoyed that. But these kind of big dramas with lots of murdering or running around and detectives, it stresses me out. I don't want to see it.

Kate Butch 0:42:43 I've never seen a Game of Thrones. I've never seen a—

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:45 No.

Kate Butch 0:42:45 Wild Horses, whatever it's called. The one thing that I will watch as it comes out is— Have you seen The Gilded Age?

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:51 No.

Kate Butch 0:42:52 It's great. It's basically American Downton.

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:55 Okay.

Kate Butch 0:42:56 And it's got Christine Baranski, Miranda from Sex and the City.

Natalie Cassidy 0:43:00 Right, okay.

Kate Butch 0:43:01 Loads of Broadway stars, 'cause I love a bit of musical theatre. It's just nice pointing, like, oh, who's got a Tony Award? And—

Natalie Cassidy 0:43:07 Yeah.

Kate Butch 0:43:07 There's very little plot in it. It's just them wearing nice gowns and thinking about which fork to use for dinner.

Natalie Cassidy 0:43:14 Oh, that sounds really good.

Kate Butch 0:43:15 It's gentle, and they just, and they look lovely, and they have a great life. What's that?

Natalie Cassidy 0:43:18 Is that Netflix?

Kate Butch 0:43:20 I think it's Sky, HBO, kind of. Oh, is it?

Natalie Cassidy 0:43:23 Oh, all right. The Gilded Age?

Kate Butch 0:43:25 Yes.

Natalie Cassidy 0:43:26 Okay, I'll have a little look at that.

Kate Butch 0:43:28 10 outta 10.

Natalie Cassidy 0:43:29 Fantastic. On the pod, there's some little bits and pieces that come up throughout, the mundane things in life, that I'd quite like to ask you, if you don't mind.

Kate Butch 0:43:39 Please, please.

Natalie Cassidy 0:43:40 I feel like I'm gonna start doing this now with a guest. ask you some Life with Nat questions. So the first one I'd like to ask is, are you a late person or an early person?

Kate Butch 0:43:51 Oh, I think job-wise I'm supposed to be a late person. Um, like drag queens are meant to be performing till crack of sparrows in the morning.

Natalie Cassidy 0:44:04 Yes.

Kate Butch 0:44:04 But I, I'm, I'm a morning person. So you're morning?

Natalie Cassidy 0:44:09 What I actually meant, I probably didn't tell— Oh, oh, I see.

Kate Butch 0:44:13 Oh, am I on time?

Natalie Cassidy 0:44:14 Are you on time? Oh, I am.

Kate Butch 0:44:17 I'm the only drag queen that's on time. I'm a very punctual person. My, my dad was in the Air Force, so I've got a bit of military residual.

Natalie Cassidy 0:44:24 Okay.

Kate Butch 0:44:25 Um, I just— I'm so scared of being late for things. I— if I'm anywhere, like, even being on time is late. There we go.

Natalie Cassidy 0:44:35 Woman after my own heart.

Kate Butch 0:44:36 I'm just more— I just feel that, 'cause I'm a bit of a people pleaser, like I said, I feel like if I'm late for something, people are gonna see that I don't respect their time, and then I don't respect them, and then they're gonna hate me, and everything's gonna fall apart, and something will catch fire.

Natalie Cassidy 0:44:48 Yeah.

Kate Butch 0:44:49 So I'm very much an early person.

Natalie Cassidy 0:44:51 Good, very good. Yeah. I find it very rude. I find it so rude.

Kate Butch 0:44:55 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:44:56 When people just stroll in 20 minutes late, and they don't apologise.

Kate Butch 0:44:59 No, if you're running late, then let me know.

Natalie Cassidy 0:45:02 Oh, absolutely. I was late. I was late for a, um, a book signing. Again, not my fault. So late to the point where I said to the lady who had organised the day— I did Sunday brunch, right? Channel 4 Sunday Brunch Live.

Kate Butch 0:45:18 That's, that's my dream, to do Sunday brunch.

Natalie Cassidy 0:45:20 Oh, it's lovely. It's a lovely job, that one. Sunday brunch. And then I said, oh, what time are we over at Lakeside? And, uh, she said, oh, In 40 minutes. I said, I beg your pardon, why is that? How's this work? So I was about an hour and 10 minutes late. I felt absolutely sick to my stomach because all these lovely people were waiting for me. What's come out of it though is the people that waited and got on at the, at the Lakeside book event have all remained friends.

Kate Butch 0:45:50 Oh, that's lovely.

Natalie Cassidy 0:45:50 They're all listeners of the pod and stuff, so that's really nice. Something, but The thought of being late, it just— honestly, I'm sweating thinking about it. I really, I really don't like it. So yeah, no, that was my first one because I don't like lateness. On to the next one. Do you like Vionetta?

Kate Butch 0:46:08 I can't remember the last time I had a Vionetta, I won't lie to you, but I remember liking it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:46:15 So it surprises me because of your, your love of old things. I thought you'd have a Vionetta in the freezer.

Kate Butch 0:46:22 I really should. Um, I'm, I'm on ice lollies at the moment, like a fruit pastel ice lolly. A Fab. I love a Fab.

Natalie Cassidy 0:46:30 Oh, do you? I see. I don't like a Fab. What is it? Well, yeah, what is it? Is it— I don't like the bubbly bits. I don't— I just want— are you an ice cream or are you a lolly? I don't want a cake.

Kate Butch 0:46:42 I like to live in the in-between kind of space.

Natalie Cassidy 0:46:44 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kate Butch 0:46:46 It's an ice lolly in drag. That's what it is.

Natalie Cassidy 0:46:47 Yeah.

Kate Butch 0:46:49 Uh, I do. I like a Vionetta, and I should— now I kind of want one, so I'm gonna go and find one.

Natalie Cassidy 0:46:55 Find one. They've remained quite cheap, which is why it came up in conversation that when, when the pod first started, they were about a pound. They've gone up a bit, but people still send me a pickey to let me know what price. I think £1.65 the other day in Tesco.

Kate Butch 0:47:10 That's good. There you go.

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:12 It's good, isn't it?

Kate Butch 0:47:12 And it's still like quite a big, a big tub.

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:14 Yes. Well, it's kind of a box, sort of a, yeah, rectangular sort of shape, you know. But it's, it's, it's very good, very reasonable. And not a lot is—

Kate Butch 0:47:24 Walls specifically, is it?

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:26 Yes, I believe so. Yeah.

Kate Butch 0:47:27 We're not going home brand?

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:29 I don't think so, no.

Kate Butch 0:47:31 It's like ketchup and baked beans, you gotta have the, the classics.

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:34 I, however, had some baked beans from Marks's. Marks's beans are great. And the other ones that actually Brilliant. Branston.

Kate Butch 0:47:44 I've heard about Branston, that they're, they're worth a try.

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:48 Really nice, really good. Do you wash your feet in the shower? Now, the reason I ask you this, Kate, right, is I was honest about it. I'm an honest person, as you know. I'm not gonna lie, most of the year— this has changed this year though with this heat— but most of the year I will stand in the shower and I wash my body but never pick up my feet and wash my feet.

Natalie Cassidy 0:48:10 Unless they're dirty, unless I've been in the garden or they're muddy, you've been at a festival, something like that, I don't wash the feet. With this heat, I have been washing my feet. It's changed a little. So I just wondered where you are on that. Be honest, do you let the water run free or do you scrub the toes?

Kate Butch 0:48:26 I let the water run free. I'm sorry, but what I've, I've recently got into, a foot mask.

Natalie Cassidy 0:48:32 Not the things you put on the COVID and it peels all your skin off?

Kate Butch 0:48:36 Yeah, those.

Natalie Cassidy 0:48:37 Yeah, yeah, good.

Kate Butch 0:48:38 It's quite, it's quite exciting. It's something, something to do with your day, isn't it?

Natalie Cassidy 0:48:43 Yeah.

Kate Butch 0:48:44 Um, I, yeah, I, I sometimes, if I'm, if I'm having a bath, if I'm treating myself—

Natalie Cassidy 0:48:48 Are you having a bath? Sorry.

Kate Butch 0:48:50 Maybe, maybe. Um, and sometimes when I'm incredibly hungover, which is sometimes, um, yeah, I will— this is my top tip if anyone's ever hungover, um, 'Cause my bathroom doesn't have a window, which is the dream, is the ideal scenario for this, is you turn off all the lights.

Natalie Cassidy 0:49:08 Yeah.

Kate Butch 0:49:09 You run the shower, and you sit on the floor. And just kind of let the shower—

Natalie Cassidy 0:49:13 Oh.

Kate Butch 0:49:15 Go out. It's like being in the rainforest. It's wonderful. And honestly, it'll solve a hangover. So while I'm there, like on the floor, near my feet, thinking about it—

Natalie Cassidy 0:49:22 Probably do give him a rub.

Kate Butch 0:49:24 I'll probably give him a little rub. But no, not normally. Not— Not consciously.

Natalie Cassidy 0:49:29 Can I say, the picture of that in the dark with no window, with a shower on, with you sitting on the floor in there, it upsets me a little bit. I'm not— it doesn't sound— it doesn't sound nice.

Kate Butch 0:49:40 It's hungover out me arse. But, um, it's— it gets— it gets the job done though. It solves a lot of your problems.

Natalie Cassidy 0:49:51 Oh, it's bloody brilliant.

Kate Butch 0:49:52 And no one can see you crying because the shower's on your face. Self-loathing. That's why I drink. It's a vicious cycle.

Natalie Cassidy 0:50:02 It all goes round. When you go to the supermarket, yes, do you use a bag for life? So hang on, how can I explain? You get a bag for life, you go into the supermarket, do you fill up that bag with stuff Before going to the till?

Kate Butch 0:50:24 That's a good question. To check that I've got enough room in my bag. I think I used to do that in COVID, when we weren't doing baskets.

Natalie Cassidy 0:50:32 Yes.

Kate Butch 0:50:34 I would— and also, because again, struggling artist. I'm not proud of this, and you can't prove it. I would used to go around Lidl.

Natalie Cassidy 0:50:42 Yeah.

Kate Butch 0:50:43 And I'd put things in my tote bag to be like, oh, I'm just checking that it all fits in the bag. Then when I get to the scanner, the self-scanner, This is my little revenge, 'cause I think if they're not paying for someone to be on the till, if they're not spending the money as that, then they maybe— they don't deserve to have all of my money for all of the things that I purchased. So sometimes maybe I just would maybe forget to scan every single item. Leave some of them still at the— make the more expensive items down at the bottom of the bag, leave those in the bag, forget to take those out and scan them. Possibly, allegedly.

Natalie Cassidy 0:51:10 Who knows, right? It's not provable.

Kate Butch 0:51:13 But now I am basket. 'Cause I'm far too famous now. I can't be caught shoplifting.

Natalie Cassidy 0:51:18 No, you can't. That's true.

Kate Butch 0:51:19 It would be terrible. That's true.

Natalie Cassidy 0:51:21 And there's quite a large— it is a bit of a problem, I think, the old shoplifting at the moment.

Kate Butch 0:51:24 Yeah, but I think Tesco can handle it. Yep. If it's a local independent shop, absolutely not.

Natalie Cassidy 0:51:35 No.

Kate Butch 0:51:36 But if it's— If it's a big supermarket that's probably not paying enough of its taxes. I'm not— if I, if I see, if I see that someone, a young mother, and maybe the, the milk, the formula falls into their bag, I'm not saying anything.

Natalie Cassidy 0:51:50 Fair enough. No, times are hard. Times are hard.

Kate Butch 0:51:53 Yeah, yeah, I hear you. Yeah, I don't like— what I hate going— when I go to the shop and someone has gone to the shop specifically to do their big shop and they haven't brought a Bag for Life with them, they're buying fresh bags.

Natalie Cassidy 0:52:04 I know, but sometimes you leave them in the boot. And it's really annoying, but you forget.

Kate Butch 0:52:10 That's fair, but it's often, it's often sometimes.

Natalie Cassidy 0:52:12 That's true.

Kate Butch 0:52:13 That's my future that you're playing with. That's the reason we've got a heat wave, is because people are buying fresh bags.

Natalie Cassidy 0:52:17 I know, it's true, it is true. There's too many bags knocking about. No, I do.

Kate Butch 0:52:21 5p is not enough.

Natalie Cassidy 0:52:23 No, is it 25p? Some of them are a pound.

Kate Butch 0:52:27 I've not bought one in ages.

Natalie Cassidy 0:52:28 No, honestly, it's gone up. Some of them are a pound, 40p. They've gone up.

Kate Butch 0:52:32 Make it fiver. I reckon I do.

Natalie Cassidy 0:52:35 Fucking whack it up to 50 quid, then you won't forget your bag, will you?

Kate Butch 0:52:38 Just don't do them. Just don't do a bag. Carry it if you forget. That's your penance.

Natalie Cassidy 0:52:42 Well, I do that now. I, I do. If I've forgotten, I'll just put everything in the trolley and then I'll wheel that out to the car and put everything in the bag. You don't need to buy the bags if you've got them in the car. Do you see what I mean?

Kate Butch 0:52:52 So that's fine.

Natalie Cassidy 0:52:54 It's absolutely fine.

Kate Butch 0:52:55 Yeah, I know. If you've like bobbed in because you have to, because you've forgotten, you're like, oh, I need to go into the shop quickly, Different. That's fine. But yeah, I've always got a tote bag on me because I'm gay, so yeah, of course it's part of the uniform.

Natalie Cassidy 0:53:07 Yeah, yeah, of course. What's your favourite tote bag? You've got one that you love?

Kate Butch 0:53:12 Oh, there's one actually, they gave us one on Drag Race which was a really like a massive one, kind of like— Oh, I love that tote bag.

Natalie Cassidy 0:53:19 Nice.

Kate Butch 0:53:19 And that's great if I'm, if I'm going like around TK Maxx or something.

Natalie Cassidy 0:53:23 Perfect.

Kate Butch 0:53:24 Big bag, beautiful time.

Natalie Cassidy 0:53:25 Shoplifting again? TK Maxx?

Kate Butch 0:53:28 Oh no, I couldn't shoplift from TK Maxx.

Natalie Cassidy 0:53:29 Sorry.

Kate Butch 0:53:30 I respect them too much.

Natalie Cassidy 0:53:31 That's good. When you said I need a big bag for the— I thought, oh gosh, it's coming all coming out now.

Kate Butch 0:53:37 No, I can't run as fast as I used to, so—

Natalie Cassidy 0:53:39 Especially not in those hills. No. Oh, well, it's been so lovely having a chat. I hope you've enjoyed it.

Kate Butch 0:53:47 Thank you. I'm so sorry I sweated my lashes off about 5 minutes into— No, that's— I think I'm incredibly unprofessional.

Natalie Cassidy 0:53:52 I think it's appalling that the lashes haven't been on. I shall note it and I'll never talk to you again.

Kate Butch 0:53:55 Thank you so much.

Natalie Cassidy 0:53:56 It's a pleasure.

Kate Butch 0:53:57 Don't tell RuPaul.

Natalie Cassidy 0:53:58 No, for God's sake. Can you imagine?

Kate Butch 0:54:00 What's she gonna do, make me lose again?

Natalie Cassidy 0:54:01 That's true.

Kate Butch 0:54:02 Who cares?

Natalie Cassidy 0:54:03 Before we go, I'm gonna put all of your info in a link underneath this episode so people know where to find you. Thank you. But off to do a Kate in the hand is worth 2 in the butch. In Edinburgh? Yes. And then you've also got London show in November, the 6th of November, Bloomsbury Theatre, one night only.

Kate Butch 0:54:27 Yes, I'm singing some songs, got a band recording an album.

Natalie Cassidy 0:54:31 Can I come?

Kate Butch 0:54:32 Oh, absolutely, front row, darling. If I'm not busy, I'll be there.

Natalie Cassidy 0:54:35 Absolutely fantastic. Be great to meet you properly and have a drink and see each other and have a laugh. Fab. Thank you, my darling.

Kate Butch 0:54:41 Thank you.

Natalie Cassidy 0:54:42 Absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on. Get the makeup off, go and, uh, sit in the shower, and, um, we'll speak soon. Thank you. Lots of love. Bye-bye. Bye.