EP234: Nat’s Chats #12 – Carers Week Bonus

Natalie Cassidy 0:02:12 Hello, and welcome to this very special bonus episode all about care. It's Carers Week this week, and I thought I can't let this week go by when I've just finished my documentary for the BBC, Natalie Cassidy: Caring Together. The response I've had regarding the 8 episodes has been overwhelming. I really can't explain how many messages I've had over Facebook, Instagram, and the WhatsApp number for the pod. and just family members and friends.

Natalie Cassidy 0:02:56 It's been amazing. And really, that's all I wanted and all the team wanted. Lovely Ali, who was with me throughout, who produced the show with me, and Jane, who was exec of the company that I worked with. All we wanted was to make an impact, and we wanted each episode to resonate. And I think if you watch it from start to finish, it's impossible to not find something that you connect with or something that's happened to you, Or a family member, or a friend that you're close to.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:30 And it's not a glamorous programme. I said that when I did my press for it, when I did The One Show and Saturday Kitchen and stuff like that. It's not sexy, it's not glamorous. It's about real life. And it's a daytime show.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:44 And I've had a lot of people say that they've got quite teary over it. And I think that's because it's real and it hits home. All of us. are gonna need care at some point, or we will be caring for someone. And I'm, I'm just overwhelmed and thrilled that people have enjoyed it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:00 And I'm really hoping that I can say at some point we're doing a series 2 so I can delve further into it and shine a light on more people that are amazing. I loved the experience and I did Loose Women last week and they surprised me with my final grade. And I got a distinction, which was absolutely marvellous. I'm really pleased. I did, I worked really, really hard.

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:25 And to get that top mark means a lot for someone of 42 who, to start this, well, 43 now, but to start this and having not been at school since I was 16, I was acting all my life, to take the plunge and walk back into a college and bring books home and do assignments when the kids are driving me mad and— I, at the time, actually, because I can say this now, 'cause it's my pod, everything happens at the same time. So I decided to do the show and I said, yep, this'll be brilliant, get stuck in. Then I got asked to do Cooking with the Stars. So I did Cooking with— I started the doc, then had 2 weeks off to do Cooking with the Stars, which was really amazing, but bloody hard work. I did that and I was also writing my book.

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:17 So it was really, really busy. But it just shows you, you can do things. I think if you put your mind to something, you know, we're very powerful, us humans. And if you wanna do something, you do it. So, yeah, I feel very proud about that.

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:32 I am going to give a couple of people a call to talk about care. And the first person I'm going to ring is lovely Tilly. Hi. I feel Tilly is the star of the series. I was in the classroom with her.

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:48 She was one of my fellow students, and she's been a carer all of her life, really. And we'll have a little chat about how she's getting on. I've not spoken to her for ages, and see what she's doing and see how her family is, because she's really special. Hello. Hello, Tilly.

Natalie Cassidy 0:06:08 How are you?

Tilly 0:06:08 I'm good, thank you. How are you?

Natalie Cassidy 0:06:11 Yeah, I'm really good. I just thought I'd give you a call. I'm doing a special podcast all about care because it's Carers Week next week. Yeah. And you came into my mind because obviously the documentary's been on, and I think you've been the star of the show.

Speaker I 0:06:28 Oh, thank you, Natalie.

Natalie Cassidy 0:06:31 Have you enjoyed it? Have you enjoyed watching it?

Tilly 0:06:35 Oh my gosh, I have loved watching it, especially my mum.

Natalie Cassidy 0:06:40 She's loved it. Has she?

Tilly 0:06:42 Every single minute of it. She keeps watching it, in fact.

Natalie Cassidy 0:06:45 Oh, bless her. I bet she's so proud. I bet it made her cry.

Tilly 0:06:50 Oh, she was crying.

Natalie Cassidy 0:06:51 Yeah. Yeah. I don't know about you, you can tell me, but the, the amount of people that have got in touch with me, messaged me or whatever, just to say it's really resonated with them, or, you know, they've just loved it. They've loved the honesty of it. They've really, you know, I think You know, lots and lots of people throughout the UK have loved the fact that we have done this programme. And what did you say at the beginning? Do you remember what you said about it being—

Tilly 0:07:18 I said it's not just a documentary, it's a movement.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:21 I, I think, I think it could be.

Tilly 0:07:23 The amount of people that have actually watched it is crazy, and then they've seen everyone's story, and I just think hopefully everyone's just gonna have a bit more patience with each other now.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:34 Do you think people will, hopefully they'll have that empathy that— Yeah. We have in the classroom and outside of the classroom. I've had lots of people say that they've watched stuff and especially the dementia episode, I've had a lot of people message me and say, I'm gonna have more patience now with a family member, or when somebody's confused, even if it isn't dementia related, say someone's got an infection of some sort and they're in hospital and they're confused. They've said, I realise now that I can't, you know, shout at them and say, you're wrong. You need to sort of go along with it. So I think people have learnt a lot from the series.

Tilly 0:08:15 Yeah, I think they have too, because people with dementia, it is their reality. It may not be our reality, but it is theirs.

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:22 Mm-hmm. So what have you been up to? What's going on?

Tilly 0:08:26 Well, I have been just doing my placement still, so I've been going to the hospital every week. And going to see my patients.

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:34 How's it been?

Tilly 0:08:35 It's been lovely, but since doing it, I've actually— it sounds crazy, but I've had a lot more empathy with my patients as well.

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:44 Yes.

Tilly 0:08:45 Because it is scary being in hospital. I think doing our courses is really, really important because it just makes us more aware of other people.

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:56 I completely agree with you. I think I think it— well, I've had, you know, I've had a few people say they think this series should be shown in all schools.

Tilly 0:09:05 I think that is a really, really good idea.

Natalie Cassidy 0:09:08 So that children can see what goes on, and again, you have that understanding of what care is about, and that understanding and empathy for others. I think that can be lost, can't it? Especially with social media and bullying and just worrying about really unimportant things. I think this show Really shows you what's important in life.

Tilly 0:09:30 Yeah, I think it does. And I think it will also break down, because with children, they don't really learn about medical conditions, do they, unless their family member has it. So I think this would be a way of like— because this is the TV show, it speaks a lot about quite common medical conditions. And I think as a way of breaking things down to children, instead of— if in case a family member gets diagnosed with anything, Of just them, like, kind of understanding it before it happens.

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:01 Yes. Yeah. Just sort of preparing yourself, isn't it? I mean, we haven't covered all subjects, of course. It's such a wide-ranging thing, isn't it? Health. There's millions and millions of things that can go wrong. But I think to have that sort of overview from birth to death and just, just have a little bit more of a realistic view on what life is.

Tilly 0:10:21 Yeah, 100%.

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:23 How long are you at the placements for? Have you got more exams to do, and what are we aiming for?

Tilly 0:10:28 I would still love to be a paediatric nurse. I think that is, that is my biggest accomplishment, hopefully. Yeah, and I've still got more exams to go, but they're going well. I'm doing all my revision, revising, revising, revising.

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:41 Good, good. And obviously, for people that maybe haven't seen the documentary who are listening to this, Tilly, you, you were a carer When did you start caring for your mum at home?

Tilly 0:10:51 Probably about 4 years old. That's when I first, first started my caring, I think, about 4.

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:59 And I still talk about you when I've done interviews. I've spoken about you. I still find it— I can't get my head around the fact that you've been caring for your mum and family members since you were 4 years old. You've gone through all of that now being 18, and yet you still want, you still want to go into the care sector. It still blows my mind. Why do you think you want to do that? I mean, not just, oh yeah, because I like it. Really try and tell me why you think you want to go into the care sector when you've been caring since you were 4 years old.

Tilly 0:11:38 See, I reckon it's because I've seen all my mum's carers and the hospital staff and the physiotherapists all have a massive impact on my mum's life. Without having that hospital staff and them nurses and them carers, my mum would be in a completely worse position. And I think I'm just so grateful for the impact they've had on mine and my mum's life that I just think if I can have half the impact on someone else's life that they've had on my mum's, I'd be so happy.

Natalie Cassidy 0:12:07 Oh, it's so wonderful to hear. So wonderful. The other thing that comes up all the time And I'm, you know, we're positive, and we've made this show, and, but it isn't all roses, Tilly, is it? It's, it's a wonderful thing to want to do, but you're not, let's be honest, you know that you're not gonna become a millionaire from doing this. Does it worry you, sort of the long hours, the hard work with very little money? Does that worry you at all?

Tilly 0:12:32 It really does worry me. I do think about it very often. It, they are 12-hour shifts, very, very long shifts, and the money, The money is not there. But, and then I also do think if you were paid like a millionaire for that job, anyone would do it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:12:51 That's right, you're so right.

Tilly 0:12:52 Anyone would do it if, if the pay was really, really good, anyone would do it, and then the wrong person would get into care.

Natalie Cassidy 0:12:58 I know, but that's not right either, is it?

Tilly 0:13:00 No, no, it's not.

Natalie Cassidy 0:13:02 I had this conversation the other night and it's exactly what I said. I said if it was a really amazing job and you did it and it was £250 grand a year every single person would be wanting to do it. And you'd have people with no empathy, you know, the people that haven't got the care— caring gene inside them, and they would be doing it and it wouldn't be right. But that doesn't mean that— No, it wouldn't be right. The people that want to go into care should be exploited because of their kindness and their— how empathetic they are. So I don't know how that changes. I don't know how you make that change.

Tilly 0:13:38 I wish it changed. I really do.

Natalie Cassidy 0:13:40 Maybe that's the next series. We can delve a bit more into that. What do you reckon?

Speaker J 0:13:46 Oh, fingers crossed.

Natalie Cassidy 0:13:48 Fingers crossed. I would absolutely love to do it, you know, continue the journey. And if it were to continue, would you definitely— would you join me? Would you help me?

Tilly 0:13:57 Natalie, I'd be there 100%.

Natalie Cassidy 0:14:00 Oh, darling. So tell me, family-wise, we've got the summer coming up. Do you have a rest now? I don't— I can't remember how it works. I do. So you have a rest? Good.

Tilly 0:14:12 I have a nice rest. The carer's coming in and me and my best friend are going on holiday.

Natalie Cassidy 0:14:16 Oh, that's lovely. So you get some respite, which is so important, as we know.

Vicki (second caller) 0:14:21 Yeah, nice refresh.

Natalie Cassidy 0:14:23 That's really good. Where are you going?

Tilly 0:14:25 I'm going to Mallorca.

Natalie Cassidy 0:14:26 Oh, lovely. That'll be fantastic. I'm so pleased to hear you're going away. What, what, you going for a week, 2 weeks? What you doing?

Tilly 0:14:34 I'm going for 10 days.

Natalie Cassidy 0:14:35 Fantastic. Brilliant. Lucky girl. You are lucky, but you deserve it, Tilly, 'cause you work very hard. Oh, geez. You're caring all the time. You've got jobs left, right, and centre. You do your dancing. Honestly, for my listeners, this girl is unstoppable. You really are. Thanks, that's lovely. That's all right, darling. But yeah, I just wanted to say thank you for being a part of the series. I think you're amazing. And we'll keep in touch anyway, 'cause yeah, you're just great. And I just wanted to have a little chat on the pod Um, so everybody could just say hello to you.

Tilly 0:15:08 Oh, thank you so much, Natalie.

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:10 That's all right. Have a lovely day.

Tilly 0:15:12 It's so good to see from you and hear from you.

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:15 Absolutely, darling. It's so nice to hear from you, and keep in touch, all right? I will.

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:19 All right, darling. Thank you, Natalie. Love to your mum. I will. Bye.

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:23 Bye, darling. Bye. There you go. Lovely Tilly, 18 years old, knows what she wants to do. And it's not right, is it?

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:34 It's not right that these carers are not getting paid more money. Doesn't make any sense to me. But I think that's— you've just hit the nail on the head there, our conversation. If it was loads and loads of money, everyone would want to do it, and then it just wouldn't be the same. Anyway, I think that's a bigger conversation.

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:55 I don't have any answers to it. I don't wanna get political. No. But yeah, something's gotta change.

Natalie Cassidy 0:16:02 I'm gonna give Vicki a call. Vicki sent me a lovely message and she just said it really resonated and she loved the doc. So let's give Vicki a call and see why it resonated.

Natalie Cassidy 0:16:17 I hope you're all having a lovely week, by the way. Some people might not listen to this because it's very different, but, uh, If you are, happy Hump Day. You've got a Nuts and Eases tomorrow to look forward to, so there you go.

Natalie Cassidy 0:16:32 Let's have a chat with Vicki.

Natalie Cassidy 0:16:36 Hello? Hi Vicki, it's Natalie.

Vicki 0:16:39 Hi Natalie, how are you?

Natalie Cassidy 0:16:41 I'm all right, how are you?

Vicki 0:16:42 I'm good, thank you.

Natalie Cassidy 0:16:45 It's, uh, raining here. How is it your end?

Vicki 0:16:49 It is absolutely hoiling it down here, yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:16:54 You know when you're getting older, and I'm like, oh, it's good for the garden. Good for the garden.

Speaker M 0:16:59 Yeah, that's right.

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:02 I just said that I had a lovely message from you, and we didn't really go into much when we messaged, and I just think it's lovely to just pick up the phone, phone you up, and say, why did you— what resonated with you with the series, and why did you feel compelled to sort of message and say you enjoyed it, really?

Vicki 0:17:19 Well, I mean, I enjoyed all of it. Your whole journey was really interesting and eye-opening.

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:25 Yeah.

Vicki 0:17:25 But the main thing that resonated with me was the dementia.

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:30 Yep.

Vicki 0:17:31 You know, you went into that trailer to experience what dementia patients got. The dementia bus. Yes, that's it. I had no idea that they went through all that. It's awful, isn't it, to think that you're talking to them as if they've just lost their memory, But in actual fact, they're going through so much more.

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:56 When I stepped onto that bus, Vicki, uh, exactly what you're saying. I was so scared. I wasn't acting, I promise you.

Natalie Cassidy 0:18:04 Yeah. I had spikes in my shoes. So for the listeners who've not seen the doc, I went onto a bus. It's this amazing work that these people do. They have a dementia bus, they take it around, and they— it's a whole kind of 10-minute thing where you get on the bus, someone puts you on the bus.

Natalie Cassidy 0:18:22 He's very, very rude to you. You think, what is going on? He's quite sharp. He doesn't look at you. So they put you in a very uncomfortable position.

Natalie Cassidy 0:18:29 I got onto the bus. I had spikes in my shoes, kind of plastic spikes, so permanently uncomfortable. I had headphones on, which made buzzing noises, kind of radio waves, then music continuously in your ears. I put glasses on so I couldn't really see. It was very blurry.

Natalie Cassidy 0:18:48 And then you're you're in the dark, and you are— you have orders being shouted at you. So find a yellow cup or write a letter. And as you're trying to find these things— oh, huge gloves, sorry. Massive gloves where you couldn't pick things up. And as you're being shouted an order— I got it, yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:19:07 You're trying to find things, and then they go on to the next thing. And yeah, this is sort of— emulates how it is for someone with dementia. Not all of those things perhaps at the same time, but some people have all of those things at the same time. And as you said, I got off of that bus and I thought, I just thought someone was a bit confused and had forgotten your name.

Vicki 0:19:28 Yeah, same here. I, you know, I, I watched my nan go through it a few years ago.

Natalie Cassidy 0:19:35 I'm sorry.

Vicki 0:19:36 Then one of my close friends, her mum went through it just recently, and The way my friend spoke about it was as if she— I mean, she had the hallucinations, which is awful. And they didn't know how to react to her because, like, she kept saying that somebody was there, but they were saying no. They were correcting her.

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:01 Mm-hmm. But then, actually, what we learned through your series is, no, you don't correct them. You just let them go along that path. So did you feel angry when you watched the series that you didn't know that before your mum had it?

Vicki 0:20:16 It was my friend's mum. No, I wouldn't say angry. It was just, I think, I think if more people knew what was going on in the patient's mind and how they were dealing with it, maybe the carers and, you know, the family carers I'm talking about.

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:33 Yes, yeah, the family carers.

Vicki 0:20:35 Yeah, maybe they, they would have more of an understanding how to deal with their loved one. It's not taught, is it? The caring profession isn't taught to anybody unless you directly go down that route yourself.

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:50 Yeah, and the thing I find strange, Vicki, when you think about it, in a family you're going to end up caring for someone, aren't you? You're always going to end up caring for somebody. along the line, someone's gonna have an outburst. Unless you're really bloody lucky, someone's gonna have something.

Natalie Cassidy 0:21:08 I mean, it was like the couple I went to see, Lisa with MS and Gary, the home carer. You know, their life got turned upside down and he's just— Aren't they amazing? Oh, they were honestly incredible. Absolutely incredible. But you don't ask for it, do you?

Natalie Cassidy 0:21:27 You don't. Don't ask for that life. And then you just have to get on with it. It was the same as my friend Abby, my, you know, Joni's best friend, Arianna, when she got diagnosed with cancer. Within about 48 hours, Abby had to have all this knowledge.

Natalie Cassidy 0:21:44 Just, you know, you're learning it as you go. You've had the worst news of your life. Yeah. And then suddenly you've gotta know when to administer this and medication and then the, and you think, I'm— I, I don't know. I haven't got a book for this.

Natalie Cassidy 0:21:57 Yeah, yeah.

Vicki 0:21:59 I, I know we had a work colleague, young, he got diagnosed with MND and he only lasted a year, bless him.

Natalie Cassidy 0:22:07 Really?

Vicki 0:22:07 It was, it was a very rapid thing. And again, nobody knows about that, that illness. Well, that— it's a horrible disease.

Natalie Cassidy 0:22:17 Yeah, motor neurone disease for the listeners. Yeah, yeah.

Vicki 0:22:20 It's awful to watch somebody go through that, and you're just helpless. You just don't know what to do. So your programmes, you know, programmes like this, they've always interested me, but your documentary really brought a lot of points out that are so helpful.

Natalie Cassidy 0:22:36 Well, I'm hoping so. Thank you. So honestly, because when we made it, you kind of go— obviously it was my story of going back to college and doing the placements and what have you, But honestly, every time we went somewhere and we met someone, we'd do the filming and we'd come away and we'd go, I can't believe that. I can't.

Natalie Cassidy 0:22:55 It's so special. Mm-hmm. And then you don't really know if it's because you're in it and you're doing the programme. Is it special because you're there? But the amount of people who have said what you've said about they've learnt something or taken something away from it, I'm just thrilled about it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:23:13 I really feel very proud of it because I feel like it can make a difference.

Vicki 0:23:17 Yeah, it certainly will. It, I mean, it's, it's hit me in, in different levels, you know, for different conditions, and you think, wow.

Natalie Cassidy 0:23:25 Yeah. Do you have children, Vicki?

Vicki 0:23:29 I do. My, my two are grown up. I've got a granddaughter as well, so yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:23:33 Lovely, lovely. And what, what, what, what do your kids do? Would you want them to go into care? The sector?

Vicki 0:23:40 Well, one of them did want to go into care, but then she did— she, um, she can't deal with bodily fluids.

Natalie Cassidy 0:23:46 Oh, okay.

Vicki 0:23:47 So that put her off.

Natalie Cassidy 0:23:50 Yeah.

Vicki 0:23:51 And the other one's gone into the policing route.

Natalie Cassidy 0:23:54 Amazing.

Vicki 0:23:56 So yeah, I mean, I, I'm proud of what they do. And, and obviously my oldest daughter, she's become a carer because she's a mum.

Natalie Cassidy 0:24:02 Yes.

Vicki 0:24:03 So you never know what's thrown at you with children as well, do you?

Natalie Cassidy 0:24:06 So it's so true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, It was lovely to have a chat. Thank you for picking up the phone, and thank you for your lovely message. And I'm really pleased you like the series. And yeah, thank you. Keep on listening.

Vicki 0:24:19 Lovely to speak to you, Natalie. Take care.

Natalie Cassidy 0:24:22 Take care. Thanks, Vicki.

Speaker N 0:24:23 Bye-bye. Bye.

Natalie Cassidy 0:24:25 It's really nice, isn't it? Nice that it's made a bit of a difference.

Natalie Cassidy 0:26:32 Spend $250 on your So, what I wanted to say was, there are lots and lots of support and resources online for carers. So, this week is Carers Week, and you can get lots of different support through organisations. There is Carers UK, offers comprehensive advice on support and financial security and balancing work with caring. You have Macmillan Cancer Support. Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:27:04 You have Macmillan Cancer Support. Dedicated information, local event listings, specifically for carers looking after someone with cancer. And you have Carers First also. I shall pop all these bits and pieces in the little link below, but there's thousands of places for support. And it's really important as a carer, a home carer, when you're at home, when you're dashing around, when you're really busy and you're sandwich caring, which I was doing, which I didn't know with my dad.

Natalie Cassidy 0:27:35 I had 2 young children. Joni was 2, Eliza was 6, 7, 6, 7, as the kids say. I had a full-time job. I had my dad ill, and I don't know how I got through it. Genuinely don't know how I got through it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:27:54 But you have to give yourself a little bit of, of respite. You need to have a break. It's really, really difficult if you are exhausted and you are permanently caring for somebody. You need to, Let someone help. Speak out.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:10 Say, I'm— I need some help. I need half an hour nap. I need half a day where I go and see a friend. I need a holiday even. Don't be scared.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:19 Don't feel guilty about needing to look after yourself, because if you are not well and you can't function, you're not gonna be able to care properly for the person that you love. So you have to give yourself a break, and it's really, really important. I think as I've got older, I'm more selfish in that way. And again, I don't even know why I'm calling it selfish. I take care of myself more in terms of, yeah, I always laugh and joke, but yeah, having a nap, having a sleep when I need one, or thinking, no, I'm gonna go out today for myself and I'm gonna go and have a walk and I'm gonna go to an art gallery, or I'm gonna have a bit of lunch with a friend, or take my brother out, or whatever it is.

Natalie Cassidy 0:29:03 I don't feel guilty for that anymore. Life is very short. And also doing this documentary that I've made, and I'm sorry if you haven't seen it and you're listening to this, but you'll have to go and watch it on iPlayer. All episodes are available now, the 8 of them, half hours. But since doing this programme, I've just met so many people whose lives have been turned upside down by illness that again, gotta go out and do what you need to do.

Natalie Cassidy 0:29:30 And what you want to do. It's really important. I'm gonna give Emily a call now. Emily is a carer for her mum who has dementia, and she has an 11-year-old daughter who has severe autism and epilepsy. And she also has an 8-year-old little boy who has been born into this kind of caring life, bless him.

Natalie Cassidy 0:29:49 But she messaged to say she enjoyed the doc. So let's give her a call, 'cause she sounds like an absolute hero, to be quite honest.

Natalie Cassidy 0:29:58 Hello. Hello, darling. How are you?

Emily 0:30:00 I'm good. Yeah, I'm hiding. I've just run up the stairs to hide from everyone.

Natalie Cassidy 0:30:04 Oh, bless you. I've just said to the listeners the situation you find yourself in at the moment with mum and your daughter and your lovely son who's 8. You sound like a hero, to be honest, and I, I just thought I'd give you a ring to see how you're coping, what your life is like, and Just how brilliant you are, quite frankly.

Emily 0:30:23 Oh, thank you. I don't feel like a hero. I just feel like a mum and a daughter. I think anyone would do the same, you know, in this situation. Everyone always says, how do you do it? But you don't really have a choice, do you?

Natalie Cassidy 0:30:35 Just get on with it, don't you? Yeah.

Emily 0:30:38 I think it's so different. So I've been, I've been watching your series. I absolutely loved it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:30:43 Oh, good.

Emily 0:30:44 And I think you're gonna inspire so many people to get into that. Even like me watching it, I was like, and I am a carer at home, but it's so— the things experienced and it's so different, do you know what I mean? It opens like a, it's like a new view into what other carers do, which was lovely.

Natalie Cassidy 0:31:01 Yes, yeah, thank you. I know that you're saying, oh, you just get on with it, but I mean, you are— that's a really— it's a lot what you're doing.

Emily 0:31:12 It is a lot, it is a lot.

Natalie Cassidy 0:31:14 Tell me your day, what you do.

Speaker F 0:31:15 Oh gosh, well, my day don't really end.

Emily 0:31:18 It goes into night as well. So Ruby has had— so Ruby's my daughter, she's 11. So she's non-verbal, severely autistic, she has epilepsy. You can probably hear her in the background, actually.

Natalie Cassidy 0:31:30 Sorry. No, do not apologise.

Emily 0:31:32 She's pretty full-on. So the minute she— she doesn't sleep well, so the nights can be quite long if she's up. And then she's normally up around 6-ish latest.

Natalie Cassidy 0:31:43 Yeah.

Emily 0:31:43 And then you have to be on the ball, so that's pretty hardcore. She does go to a— she's in a special needs school, so that's a massive, massive weight off my mind.

Natalie Cassidy 0:31:50 So I know that she's— Oh, that's lovely. Happy and safe there. That's good.

Emily 0:31:54 Yeah, so I get that, get that time. My son goes to a mainstream school, so they both have to go to school at the same time. So it's a case of getting him to school early, getting back for her bus. She gets a bus into school, um, and then the same when they get home.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:08 Yeah.

Emily 0:32:09 Um, so yeah, he has to kind of alter his school hours around Ruby, bless him, but he's good as gold about it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:15 Oh, bless him.

Emily 0:32:15 And then Mum, I'm just here with Mum all the time. At the moment, you can leave Mum, so she— I can pop out and, you know, if I need to go shopping or I go to the gym just to get a bit of space, I can do that at the moment. Obviously, I know that will change over time.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:35 Yes.

Emily 0:32:35 But at the moment, I think it's important to get that bit of time when I can. Well, I kind of need that bit of time otherwise.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:42 I'm so pleased. I'm so pleased, you, like, genuinely, I'm so pleased that you give yourself that time because— Yeah. If you didn't do that— It's only a recent thing.

Emily 0:32:51 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:52 You'd go mad. Burnout.

Emily 0:32:53 Yeah, you would. You completely would. And I was starting to go mad.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:57 Right.

Emily 0:32:58 It was only until like the last year and it, it, see, I've suffered with like really bad anxiety now, which I never have. But because Ruby's got epilepsy, it just triggers me. So constantly watching out for a seizure or through the night, is it gonna happen? And I'm not watching her like a hawk and, So that's been a real struggle. Um, Mum, I don't find too anxiety-inducing. It's a worry, it's a constant worry. Is she gonna fall over? You have to listen out all the time, you're always on guard.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:24 How old's your mum? She's 72. Oh, okay. So she was—

Emily 0:33:28 yeah, she was diagnosed 2 years ago.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:30 Gosh.

Emily 0:33:31 Yeah, it's a strange— and I'm 37, and all of my friends are like just having more kids, or they've just been married, you know, and they're getting their houses, and they're just doing normal things that people my age would be doing, and I'm like Oh, do you know what I mean? It's not my time yet.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:47 Do you have a partner, Emily?

Emily 0:33:48 I do, yeah. So I'm not with my children's dad anymore. We broke up when they was young. Yeah. Um, and then I met my fiancé 7 years ago now.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:58 Yeah. And he's honestly incredible. Yeah.

Emily 0:34:02 He's the best thing in the whole entire world. What he deals with, with why he even, why he's put himself in this situation. I ask him every day, what are you doing here?

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:11 Because he loves you.

Emily 0:34:12 Yeah, that's his answer. He is my rock. I don't know what I'd do without him, to be honest.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:18 That's lovely.

Emily 0:34:19 Yeah, even that situation is so hard because he has 2 children as well, and obviously where I've had to move back into mum's to care for her, there's not room for everyone, so he's had to keep a place as well. We are together a lot, but it's still not that home life that you would expect us all to have, you know. It works, it works for us.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:39 Yes.

Emily 0:34:40 And we know it's not going to be here for everything, but But it takes a toll on him as well, you know?

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:45 Yeah. It sounds like you have got a lot on your plate. Yeah. And obviously this little episode, it's just a little bonus to highlight it's Carers Week, and I'm pleased that you— Yes. But you must, you must always ask for help. You must say, I've got to have a break.

Emily 0:34:59 I know I'm useless at that, you know? I am useless at that. I very rarely ask for help.

Natalie Cassidy 0:35:04 And is that, do you think through guilt? Do you think that's guilt? Because I remember— Probably. I remember with Dad, when I, if I was tired and, you know, I was very, very lucky 'cause my dad was very independent I was very, very lucky. But right at that, that end stage, I think it's something within you that just goes, I need to do it on my own. I'm gonna do this.

Emily 0:35:24 Yeah, you kind of take over. Yeah, it's funny, isn't it?

Natalie Cassidy 0:35:26 I can do that. But yours is lifelong. It's very, very different. Yeah. It's not a, you know, it's not a small amount of time. It's not a small window. Do you need to make sure you pace yourself and you look after yourself?

Emily 0:35:39 Yes. So Ruby goes to her dad's every other weekend. and a couple of nights through the week. So that again gives me a bit of a break from—

Natalie Cassidy 0:35:45 That's good.

Emily 0:35:46 Um, from thinking about her, so I can just concentrate on Mum or having a little bit of free time, you know. But, um, but yeah, I find it really hard to ask for help, and I'm not one to put her in respite or anything like that, which I don't knock anyone that does. I just personally, I've got too much anxiety built around that.

Natalie Cassidy 0:36:03 Yeah.

Emily 0:36:04 Um, especially as she can't talk. I think that's my main thing. It's not like she can come home and say, Mum, I didn't like this today, or this happened to me, you know.

Natalie Cassidy 0:36:10 Yes. Yeah, I can understand that. It's an added worry.

Emily 0:36:13 So I'd rather take that on. And before, I don't know, sometimes I think it's just easier to do it myself. By the time I've explained how to do something or set up for people to cut, you know, I, I just think, oh, I might as well just do it myself.

Natalie Cassidy 0:36:26 Might as well just do it, you know, the stress of having people in.

Emily 0:36:28 Yeah, and it's done. Yeah, yeah, I know it's going to get to that stage, obviously, we all, we all know that. But yes, we've just got to take it each day as it comes, and when that time comes, it will come, I suppose.

Natalie Cassidy 0:36:40 But Yeah. Well, you sound very level-headed. You sound extremely sort of calm and getting on with it. But, you know, you're amazing. Sometimes my—

Emily 0:36:48 yeah. My kids might say otherwise sometimes.

Natalie Cassidy 0:36:51 Well, I'm sure they would, but we're all like that. Yeah. Well, we're all like that. It's irrelevant, isn't it? It doesn't matter. You know, we all lose our patience. Yeah. We all, all do things. We all get emotional. We all can be tired. So, with what you've got going on, I think it's, you know, It's quite acceptable to every now and again drop the ball, so to speak.

Emily 0:37:12 Well done you for your pass as well.

Natalie Cassidy 0:37:14 Thank you. Thank you very much. You've done amazing. Yeah, I'm—

Speaker R 0:37:18 Well done.

Natalie Cassidy 0:37:19 Yeah, it's really good. I'm really pleased. I took it really seriously. You know, I worked hard. Yeah. It is a hard one because I think, you know, people have really enjoyed it, but then you get the odd comment of, oh, you're only doing it because it's on the telly, and, well, what are you gonna do now? And it's a really— it is difficult because of course I have done it. I have done it. as a television programme. Yeah. Because that's my— Of course. That's what I do.

Emily 0:37:42 I don't think anyone would put themselves in that situation if they wasn't serious about it. And also, well, why would you? You know, it's a very niche thing to go into, isn't it?

Natalie Cassidy 0:37:51 Yeah, I think so. Being a television programme or not, it's— Yeah, well, it's, um, it takes a lot. It's not, um, you know, all glamour, is it? Or sort of travelling around the world. Oh, God, no. You know. No. I'll leave Alan and Amanda to do that. They can go and build houses. Yeah. And I'm gonna be in elderly care homes. It's about right for me. Yeah.

Emily 0:38:08 How difficult How dare you do that and take them liberties?

Natalie Cassidy 0:38:13 It's just a strange thing for people to, um, oh, you're never gonna please everyone, are you? You've gotta be honest. You're not gonna please everybody.

Emily 0:38:19 But I'm sure every carer that's watched that has smiled along and thought, good for you.

Natalie Cassidy 0:38:25 Yeah, well, I hope it shines a light on just what everybody's up to. And there are certain, you know, there are so many roles as well.

Natalie Cassidy 0:38:31 The other thing is I want people to, I really hope kids watch it because I think it'd be great for them to go, oh, I didn't know there was sort of an occupational nurse, or I didn't know that there was a therapist, or, you know, nurses, home nurses. And I just think it shows— Oh, it opens up. Doesn't it? It shows that sort of— So much. So much.

Natalie Cassidy 0:38:50 There's so many jobs that I don't think at sort of 14, 15 people know about. And also, not all kids wanna— we've got this thing, haven't we, in this country? You've gotta get 9s and you've gotta go to university and going to college is a bit of a fail, like, as if you failed. Yeah. And it's pathetic because these colleges are unbelievable.

Natalie Cassidy 0:39:11 They're fantastic. Yeah.

Emily 0:39:13 And people can go to university for years and come home and not get a job in the thing they've just done a degree in.

Natalie Cassidy 0:39:18 It's absolutely right.

Emily 0:39:21 But even I was watching it going, oh, I wouldn't mind doing that aspect of it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:39:24 Yeah. No, I won't.

Emily 0:39:25 But when my time of peace comes, I'm not stepping back into that role, let me tell you. But, but I can, yeah, I can completely see how Yeah, it would inspire people, and I do think it's going to do that.

Natalie Cassidy 0:39:36 So I think it's excellent. Thank you. Well, I hope so. Every single—

Emily 0:39:40 yeah, every episode I loved. I thought it was brilliant.

Natalie Cassidy 0:39:43 It was brilliant.

Emily 0:39:44 And, um, even the dementia one, it just completely opened my mind to how Mum must feel sometimes, you know?

Natalie Cassidy 0:39:50 Yes.

Emily 0:39:50 And like the lovely Scott, what he was saying, it was so— could really relate with him.

Natalie Cassidy 0:39:55 He wasn't— he lovely in it. He was so good, wasn't he, Mum? So good. Yeah, it was really, really good. He's such— so honest about it all. You know?

Emily 0:40:02 Yeah. And yeah, just, it's just a lovely, lovely man, isn't he?

Natalie Cassidy 0:40:06 He really is. I'm very lucky. He's my friend and my agent and, you know, looks after me. So yeah, I'm super lucky. I feel very grateful to have him.

Emily 0:40:14 Yeah, it's a lovely, lovely man. And I'm gonna take on when you, when he was saying it's their, you know, it's their story, you just got to be in it for that moment. And it's so true because sometimes you do, like he said at the beginning, you just want to correct them and say That's not right.

Natalie Cassidy 0:40:29 What are you saying that for?

Emily 0:40:29 You know, but I'm gonna take his, take his advice and just step back.

Natalie Cassidy 0:40:34 Yeah.

Emily 0:40:35 And, um, yeah, let her live in the moment and just join her there.

Natalie Cassidy 0:40:38 Just nod, nod and smile. Yeah. And agree and say, yeah, you know. I loved it. I loved being in the dementia home. I know that might sound a bit weird, doesn't it? But that gave me so much to, to— I came away thinking, That is so, so rewarding to sort of be a part of their world or make them smile or just make them feel safe for that little tiny pocket.

Emily 0:41:02 Yeah, because they revert back to being like their younger self, don't they? And it's like you feel like you need to nurture them a bit more. Yeah, I can imagine how rewarding that is.

Natalie Cassidy 0:41:12 Interestingly, I think there's an element of role play there because of being an actress. Yep. You're kind of pretending with them. So I like that, you know, that was— I liked, I enjoyed that sort of—

Emily 0:41:23 Yeah, that's very true. Constant role play, isn't it?

Natalie Cassidy 0:41:27 Yeah, constantly. And also, I think with carers, I think you see a lot of care, there's a lot of humour in care. Although there's dark moments, there's a lot of laughter. You've gotta have a lot of— Oh, you have to, don't you? You know, I think you've gotta laugh, haven't you, about everything?

Emily 0:41:39 Yeah, yeah, you do. And you're there to cheer them up, aren't you? So yeah, yeah, it is a, it is an acting role. You're right.

Natalie Cassidy 0:41:46 There we go.

Emily 0:41:47 There's your perfect, perfect next job for you.

Natalie Cassidy 0:41:51 Well, let's hope we get— hopefully, fingers crossed, we get a series 2 so I can delve into it more, you know? That's what I'd love to do. I hope so, yeah. I'd really like to. Yeah, yeah.

Emily 0:42:01 All the other people that he was on there with was incredible as well.

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:04 They were lovely, weren't they?

Emily 0:42:05 Yeah, they were so good and so young and just so headstrong on what they wanted to do. Really, really good.

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:13 Impressive. I think people should watch it and be inspired. I really do.

Emily 0:42:16 Yeah. Yeah, I do.

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:18 Well, Emily, thank you. It was so lovely talking to you. I'll let you get back to your day.

Speaker R 0:42:23 Thank you.

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:24 Just remember, it's your week this week. It's Carers Week, and you're doing a grand job. I'm gonna lap it up. Good. There you go.

Speaker F 0:42:32 All right.

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:33 Thank you very much. You take care. Cheers, Emily. And you. Bye, darling. Bye. Lovely Emily.

Natalie Cassidy 0:44:50 I can't imagine having that life, and I know there'll be so many listeners, so many people that care for people continuously, especially with children. And the next caller is another Vicki, actually. And she watched the doc, and she sent a message because the stuff I did with a charity called SPACE, which isn't far from me, incredible charity, and they are specialising in different things to do with neurodiversity and supporting families. And it really resonated with Vicki. So I'm gonna give her a little tinkle now.

Natalie Cassidy 0:45:25 Nice, this nice little one to highlight people who are fantastic and get on with their days. You never know what they're— you know, you never know people's stories, do you? Just remember that when you're out and about. You need to remember that. I'm the first one, I know I've said it before, you're in Marks& Spencer's or wherever you are and someone looks a bit miserable and I'm the first one I think, oh, cheer up, would you?

Natalie Cassidy 0:45:48 Might never happen. But you don't know what they're going through. I've got to stop that. I've got— not everybody is as lucky as me. Not everybody can be as happy all the time.

Vicki (second caller) 0:45:58 Hello?

Natalie Cassidy 0:46:01 Hello, is that Vicki?

Vicki (second caller) 0:46:02 Hello, Nat, you all right?

Natalie Cassidy 0:46:04 I'm good, how are you?

Vicki (second caller) 0:46:05 I'm good, thank you. I'm literally just going out to my car to actually get to have a decent conversation with you.

Natalie Cassidy 0:46:10 Oh, okay. And this is what I'm talking about. Whilst you're doing that, you do that, but again, It's— you don't even think of those things. Yeah, you know, I would never ever think, oh, you can't even have a, a conversation without being interrupted at home.

Vicki (second caller) 0:46:30 Exactly, exactly. And that's just one of the— exactly what, exactly what you said. It's one of the things people don't even think about. They just think of ADHD as somebody who's just completely hyperactive, doesn't sit down for 5 minutes, and there's just so much more to it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:46:44 Yeah. Tell us your story because it's Carers Week and I'm highlighting wonderful people like yourself. So tell us your story.

Vicki (second caller) 0:46:50 So, um, our little boy, he's 6. From a very early age, I would say even maybe around 2, yeah, we were told, oh, he could have possible ADHD traits, purely because he just wanted to be on the go all the time. But you get, you get the things of, oh, you know, he's only little, he's a boy. That's the one that gets my back up the most. Oh, he's a boy. Because that's all we ever hear, he's a boy. And then it was raised again at preschool that he kind of just wasn't having the attention span, and he, you know, he'd get bored very, very quickly.

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:22 Yeah.

Vicki (second caller) 0:47:22 Then he's gone to school, and that's where it become really apparent, and that's where the autistic traits also started to come in as well.

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:30 Okay.

Vicki (second caller) 0:47:31 And his teacher flagged up a few things that, you know, he was quite— his coordination's not great, so when he eats, like, trying to get him to eat without getting messy is ridiculous. And he eats sometimes Sometimes like what you would see as a 3-year-old would eat. It's just very, very messy.

Vicki (second caller) 0:47:46 And again, that's an ADHD trait with the coordination and things like that. So things like this were all starting to come up, and then it started to come to the friendships. And then it was— he was just not engaging with the children the same way as they were. So he's not into the same things that they are, and he would hyperfocus on certain things that he was interested in. And for instance, it would be things like Harry Potter.

Vicki (second caller) 0:48:12 Right.

Vicki (second caller) 0:48:15 obsessed, uh, to the point of that, oh, so what do you want to talk about with all these children? These other children aren't interested.

Natalie Cassidy 0:48:19 No, bless him.

Vicki (second caller) 0:48:20 So it has made things like that very, very difficult. And on top of that, from reception, he now has an oral sensitivity.

Natalie Cassidy 0:48:28 Okay.

Vicki (second caller) 0:48:29 Which means he doesn't like the feel of saliva in his mouth.

Natalie Cassidy 0:48:32 Right.

Vicki (second caller) 0:48:32 So he has to try and get rid of that, and his only way of doing that when he was at school is using his jumper.

Natalie Cassidy 0:48:37 Yeah.

Vicki (second caller) 0:48:38 Which now is causing a lot of problems because now obviously the children are noticing it It's very difficult because trying to educate them is ridiculously hard, and even trying to educate parents is so ridiculously hard.

Natalie Cassidy 0:48:53 Do you think it's changing, Vicki? Do you think something like the show— sorry, I interrupted you then. No, it's fine. When you got in touch about the documentary, why did it resonate so much, the episode with Space, Chris?

Vicki (second caller) 0:49:06 It was when I heard you talking to the children and you said about it was somewhere they fitted in. And as soon as— even saying it now, it makes me want to well up. I know. And that's the thing that is so hard, is wanting your child who's trying so hard to fit in, finding somewhere to fit in. And, you know, he— we've not been invited to many birthday parties and things this year, and it's things like that he's starting to notice.

Vicki (second caller) 0:49:31 Like, why don't I get invited to things like that? And we've had to obviously tell him things like, oh, you know, it's expensive and they can only have so many people. But we know there's so much more underlying to it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:49:42 Of course.

Vicki (second caller) 0:49:43 charities like SPACE and seeing these amazing things they do for these children, where these children aren't judged for the things they can and can't do, you can see their regulation taking over and how comfortable they are where they are.

Natalie Cassidy 0:49:56 And even for the parents, they were so calm. Just to have— they were so calm.

Vicki (second caller) 0:50:00 Honestly, it was so dreamy to watch.

Natalie Cassidy 0:50:02 Also, when you talk about families, the children were calm and playing and whatever. The thing that got me the most was those parents being able to sit and have a cup of tea and talk to each other.

Vicki (second caller) 0:50:16 Yeah, in a way it sounds ridiculous, and I hate using the word normal, but for those parents to feel normal. Yeah, like they can actually just go somewhere just for even for half an hour and just breathe, that they haven't got to watch that child every second of the day, and that you know that they are completely comfortable, they're safe where they are, and you know that those parents that you're sitting with are not judging you.

Natalie Cassidy 0:50:38 Yes.

Vicki (second caller) 0:50:39 And I just personally think Whether or not it's because we've only just started our journey since January with this, I am struggling to find anything like that.

Natalie Cassidy 0:50:48 That's so annoying.

Vicki (second caller) 0:50:49 It's really sad, and I'd like to feel like it's changing, but I don't know if it's changing quick enough for the amount of children, especially children at the moment, that are being diagnosed.

Natalie Cassidy 0:51:01 Whereabouts are you, Vicki?

Vicki (second caller) 0:51:03 I'm in Kent. I'm in Longfield, um, sort of out towards Dartford. So you'd think kind of being near London, we'd have quite a lot of opportunity, but we really I mean, we're actually looking at moving at the moment out towards Gloucestershire because we think there's a lot more outdoorsy things that would really interest our son more than what he's getting here. Whether or not that's going to be something that will happen, we don't know.

Natalie Cassidy 0:51:28 No.

Vicki (second caller) 0:51:28 But it's really hard trying to find— I think that was the whole thing about the fitting in, trying to find somewhere that your child will fit in without feeling judged.

Natalie Cassidy 0:51:40 Yeah, yeah.

Vicki (second caller) 0:51:42 I think, and I think your programme, especially just watching that, even that particular episode, it really— I'm, I'm hoping it resonated with so many more people who maybe don't live with someone with these, with autism, ADHD, but maybe just take a moment to think about the people that do. It's just difficult. It's, it can be really difficult.

Natalie Cassidy 0:52:01 I'm sure it can. I Yeah, I'm, I'm absolutely sure it can. I, I can't imagine what you go through. And like you say, you are starting this journey, but it's so, it's so annoying. It's really, it pisses me off that there isn't somewhere near you like SPACE.

Vicki (second caller) 0:52:18 No. See, the other thing that really gets us is like, they like, oh yeah, we can, we'd like to just definitely tell you, um, your son has got ADHD with traits of autism.

Natalie Cassidy 0:52:26 Yeah.

Vicki (second caller) 0:52:26 Right. Well, that's great. Now what, now what do we do with that? Well, then you just, you are left to your own devices to go off and find out other information. We don't know where to start. No. Because it's an absolute minefield. Yeah. And it's programmes then like yours that are showcasing these charities that can then maybe— fair enough, they might not be in our area, but we might be able to find something that's similar.

Natalie Cassidy 0:52:46 I really think that they will be able to help.

Vicki (second caller) 0:52:48 Without knowing this information, we don't know where to start with any of this. So like you say, maybe by calling them, maybe that will be a start for us, because I'm sure there probably are things, but they aren't They aren't well known enough to help these parents out.

Natalie Cassidy 0:53:05 No. At all. No. Well, okay, I, I, I, what I'm gonna try and do is definitely on the bottom of this bonus episode, which is going out Wednesday, um, I'm gonna try and put as many sort of organisations, um, as I can underneath. But you know, it's really hard because again, you don't know what what people want or whatever. But as we've had— Exactly, and it's such a varied thing. It's so varied. There's so much going on in people's lives. But because we've had this conversation, I will certainly put Space's details in there. That's amazing.

Vicki (second caller) 0:53:39 I mean, yeah, I mean, when I saw what Space done, I just thought what a wonderful thing to be— if you're able to go, because I saw they kind of run a few, there's a few around the country, I think. What a wonderful, wonderful charity to highlight that are doing something that a lot of parents just would not know about. to see what you said, like you said, with the children and for the parents, that just that, that release, that little moment of calm that is just so—

Natalie Cassidy 0:54:07 But also, Vic, what it does, it's not only the calm. You're sitting with someone who's going through what you're going through, a like-minded person that you can talk to. Absolutely. You can talk to them. And it doesn't feel like you're very much on your own with that. Exactly. Yeah. You know, you don't feel like you're on your own. There are other people like you. You just don't know it.

Vicki (second caller) 0:54:26 I think one of the things that— yeah, there was one of the things one of the parents I think said when you were sitting there, like, there's not one time one of them doesn't maybe cry. And it is— I can imagine that relief and the relief to sit with people that know exactly how you're feeling, are not going to judge you in what your children are doing.

Natalie Cassidy 0:54:44 Yeah.

Vicki (second caller) 0:54:44 Just for that moment, and like, that release is— you don't get that in many places. So that will be amazing if there are other charities out there that Yeah, can help.

Natalie Cassidy 0:54:57 Absolutely. The other thing which I found doing the documentary, right, we're banging on here about how brilliant all the charities are. They are, they're amazing. If all these charities weren't around, I don't— well, there's not enough, you know.

Vicki (second caller) 0:55:09 It's something they're thinking about. There isn't. And like, obviously going on a bit more, like, we had the— like, something come up in, I think, one of the government talk calls the other day. So they, um, they want to now look at taking anxiety and ADHD out of some of the disability living allowances.

Natalie Cassidy 0:55:27 Right, okay.

Vicki (second caller) 0:55:28 Now that's clearly— maybe someone's made that decision who doesn't know someone who has these problems, because there's extra things we have to buy.

Natalie Cassidy 0:55:35 Of course. As provision. Of course.

Vicki (second caller) 0:55:37 That, that money really helps us because obviously everyone's in the same position at the moment with how expensive things are, but these— that little bit of extra money really helps, and it helps us to take him to do things where it might be a bit quieter.

Natalie Cassidy 0:55:51 Yes.

Vicki (second caller) 0:55:52 Or, you know, and we have to pay extra to do that. That's what that money goes towards.

Natalie Cassidy 0:55:56 I get it, I do get it. That's unbelievable. Sorry, So what are they doing? They're gonna— what, they're gonna take—

Vicki (second caller) 0:56:02 They're talking about taking ADHD and anxiety out of a disability living allowance.

Natalie Cassidy 0:56:10 Good grief.

Vicki (second caller) 0:56:12 Yeah, and like I said, I think for people— and I think a lot of the comments I was reading, because I love to go and have a look at the comments afterwards— everyone was saying, well, this has clearly been made a decision made by someone who doesn't have to live with these problems.

Natalie Cassidy 0:56:22 Oh, absolutely.

Vicki (second caller) 0:56:23 Because if they did, that wouldn't even— that wouldn't even come into it. No, it's just— I mean, admittedly, since my son's been diagnosed, he's so scarised to the amount of things that ADHD covers. Yeah, I used to think it was just hyperactivity, but there's so much more to it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:56:39 Yeah, I mean, I just— all I did was, you know, very tip of the iceberg stuff, but I learned so much with Chris. It's incredible.

Natalie Cassidy 0:56:47 It was incredible. And you don't realise there's so many different— and when he was talking, Chris, about I don't even know if it was in the doc, actually, whether it made the edit. But when he was talking, did he talk about the Christmas lights?

Natalie Cassidy 0:56:59 No. No. Oh, maybe it didn't make it. So he did this amazing analogy. You know when you get your Christmas lights out and they're all tangled, all the wires, and you've got all the lights?

Natalie Cassidy 0:57:09 And he said that, imagine that being the brain. And then some lights are on and some are off, and everyone's brains are so different. And it's like that. that huge big ball of Christmas lights and, and it's not— there's no— but it's muddled, but it's not— there's no normal. Yes, you have a neurotypical ball of Christmas lights which is all lit.

Natalie Cassidy 0:57:30 Yeah. But then you have all of the— oh, there's so many different levels.

Vicki (second caller) 0:57:36 And that is such a brilliant analogy of what that is. Yeah, it really— that is a fantastic analogy.

Natalie Cassidy 0:57:42 Yeah.

Vicki (second caller) 0:57:42 And that is exactly how it is.

Natalie Cassidy 0:57:44 So there we go, you know, it is— it's not about being normal. You can be neurotypical. No, I don't think anyone is. I, I think it's very rare to have a neurotypical person. I'm not neurotypical.

Vicki (second caller) 0:57:57 You know what I'd like to say? We call the things we all have quirks. Yes, they're our autistic traits. They are quirks.

Natalie Cassidy 0:58:03 Yes.

Vicki (second caller) 0:58:03 And we've all got things we like, we don't like. We don't like the taste of something, we don't like the feel of something. We've all got them.

Natalie Cassidy 0:58:09 Yeah.

Vicki (second caller) 0:58:09 But yet some people just have them either a lot more over different varied things, but then they're classed as not normal. And that, when they come out with the neurotypical, I thought, what a fantastic way of putting it. Yes, without making it sound so negative.

Natalie Cassidy 0:58:24 I completely agree with you. And again, that language, I didn't know that language. I would genuinely beforehand— People have to learn. I promise you, beforehand I would have gone, well, I'm normal, and then this, you know, I didn't mean any harm by it.

Vicki (second caller) 0:58:38 It's No, no, it's the way it is. That's how we've all been brought up. I mean, I'm the same age, near enough, as, um, I think I'm the same age as Mark.

Natalie Cassidy 0:58:46 Yeah.

Vicki (second caller) 0:58:46 And that's what we, um, grew up with.

Natalie Cassidy 0:58:50 But this is education. We need to be educated, you know. People in schools have got to be learning about the things that are really important.

Vicki (second caller) 0:58:58 I really feel that they— I mean, our schools are currently supposed to be doing something on one term where we talk about how people are different.

Natalie Cassidy 0:59:06 Yes.

Vicki (second caller) 0:59:07 And what makes us different, where it's supposed to cover all of these things. I'm still yet to hear my son come out with that they've done something like that yet. It's not come up. But I do think from a very early age, yeah, it's important. Yeah, people do need to know that. But I would probably say near enough half of their classes, there are people who are some form of neurodivergent, maybe with or without knowing.

Natalie Cassidy 0:59:30 Yes, yes, absolutely.

Vicki (second caller) 0:59:31 And it's educating the parents. We were told one time last year, my little boy was— one little boy went up to him and said, you can't come to my party because my mum says you're bad. Now that really— yeah, I went straight to this— it broke my heart because he's not even a bad kid. He's not naughty. He hasn't got that neuro— that neuro side of ADHD. Yeah, he's just hyper. But to hear a parent who doesn't even know him call him bad— yeah, that's a really terrible word for a child.

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:02 It's awful for anybody.

Vicki (second caller) 1:00:03 It's awful. It's awful. And I just I think education is just going to be so key going forward, but I just don't know how quick it's happening.

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:12 I think they should play my documentary in schools. They could play an episode a week.

Vicki (second caller) 1:00:16 Yeah, they would learn so much. And you know what, to be honest, I might even mention it to our SENCO at school, uh, when I'm— when I'm going to see her.

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:25 Even if they just do the, the episode that resonated with you, just put that one on. Yeah, the one episode.

Vicki (second caller) 1:00:31 Yeah, well, I've got a meeting with her next week, so I'm actually going to mention it because It really— and I'm going to say to her exactly how it made me feel and what I think the benefit would be for children from such a young age and the teachers.

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:44 Yes.

Vicki (second caller) 1:00:45 To just look at this, at what's going on.

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:47 Yeah.

Vicki (second caller) 1:00:48 And it will help some of the teachers that maybe do have to deal with these, these issues as well.

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:52 And it's hard. It's so hard. So hard. They've got so much to do. Unbelievable. You know, they don't get paid enough. They have. In all of these sectors, sectors, health and education.

Vicki (second caller) 1:01:03 Yeah, yeah. I mean, we're very lucky. Our school, they do put quite a few things in place for the SENCO sector. Um, like my little boy gets to do a sensory circuit every morning before school for 10-15 minutes before his— it's wonderful. And we've really noticed such a difference. But there are not enough schools being able to do this.

Natalie Cassidy 1:01:21 No.

Vicki (second caller) 1:01:22 And it would be so helpful. But again, it just always comes down to money, funding, doesn't it? And money, everything's money.

Natalie Cassidy 1:01:28 Everything's money. Yeah.

Vicki (second caller) 1:01:29 Yeah, everything.

Natalie Cassidy 1:01:32 So yeah, there we go. Um, it is— we've put the world to rights.

Speaker S 1:01:36 We have. I think we have. I call that backing down parent, Katrina.

Natalie Cassidy 1:01:41 Bless you. And the other thing I was going to say, because it's important, is I do hope you get a rest sometimes.

Vicki (second caller) 1:01:47 Not as much as I would like, but you know what, we try to do a little bit of self-care. And even my self-care, that can be something as ridiculous as 10 minutes in the bathroom doing my face care skin routine of the night, but it's my time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and it's my bit of quiet where I don't have to think about somebody else, which at the time used to feel so selfish saying, but now I know how important it is.

Natalie Cassidy 1:02:11 No, it's so important.

Vicki (second caller) 1:02:11 Because if I'm not okay, those children aren't okay.

Natalie Cassidy 1:02:14 There you go. That's it. That's it.

Vicki (second caller) 1:02:15 So it's so important, and I think a lot of people do tend to forget that.

Natalie Cassidy 1:02:19 I agree, and I'm pleased that you understand that and you're not guilty about it. Absolutely not. Try and get a rest. Although 10 minutes washing your face, I'd quite like you to have a little bit longer.

Vicki (second caller) 1:02:30 I would, I would love to have a little bit. To be fair, I can't lie, I actually was lucky enough to go out for dinner last night with, um, a friend.

Natalie Cassidy 1:02:38 So that's good.

Vicki (second caller) 1:02:38 That was a dream to not have to just think about anything but what I was eating last night. It was lovely.

Natalie Cassidy 1:02:43 Good. I hope you had a lovely time. I did. It was lovely. Good, good. Well, it's been absolutely wonderful talking to you Lovely.

Vicki (second caller) 1:02:52 And he's chatting. Funny enough, my little boy's now come down to the car. Well, there you go.

Natalie Cassidy 1:02:56 You better get going. Um, send my love to all the children. Thank you so much, Nat. All right. I will.

Vicki (second caller) 1:03:01 Thanks so much, Nat. Have a good day.

Natalie Cassidy 1:03:02 See ya.

Natalie Cassidy 1:03:03 Bye-bye. Imagine saying, I'm so lucky I went for dinner last night. I can't imagine it. We just go out for dinner whenever. Not that we do it a lot, but I'm saying I, I have that choice.

Natalie Cassidy 1:03:19 Should we go out for dinner? All the kids sit around the table, have dinner. You do not realise. That's why it's good to talk about these things. It's good to open up these conversations.

Natalie Cassidy 1:03:31 And I think parents of neurotypical children, listen to this, listen to what people go through. The next time you're in a swimming pool and maybe there's a child there that you isn't like your child, and, or you roll your eyes, or you tut, or when you're in the supermarket, and, you know, have a little think about people and what they're going through. Just have that little bit of empathy. I really hope everybody has enjoyed this episode. I really wanted to do it.

Natalie Cassidy 1:04:01 I hope you've watched the documentary. If you haven't, please go to BBC iPlayer. There's 8 episodes on there, and I think you'll really like it. And if you have watched it and you have got in touch, thank you for all of your wonderful, wonderful messages. Thank you.

Natalie Cassidy 1:04:14 And I'm pleased you've really enjoyed it. To all the carers out there, this is your week. Look after yourself, and you're all completely amazing. 07788 20 1919 if you want to get in touch or leave me a message. And all of the details of all of the charities that we've spoken about will be underneath wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Natalie Cassidy 1:04:37 I will speak to you tomorrow for a lovely evening. Easy, funny Nat's Nieces. And in the meantime, take care of yourself. See ya.