EP233: Tony talks #22 – Parenting- scratching the surface.

Natalie Cassidy 0:02:46 You see, what you don't realise is I purposefully didn't have you up here last week.

Tony 0:02:54 Well, I'm very glad to hear that. 'Cause she'd have been able to boil eggs in here last week.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:02 It was so hot.

Tony 0:03:03 I know it was hot.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:05 It was ridiculous.

Tony 0:03:06 I was working in it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:07 How was that?

Tony 0:03:09 Dreadful. Absolutely awful. But I've got, I've got a revelation.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:15 Go on.

Tony 0:03:16 I was so uncomfortable, I've gone commando. No pants.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:27 Now when you say no pants, yep, I'm envisaging a red N21 t-shirt.

Tony 0:03:35 Yes.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:36 With nothing else.

Tony 0:03:37 No, that's not going commando, that's getting arrested at work or for exposure.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:44 Earlier said on the Hartford Live pod, or Marie, I can't remember, you look like Winnie the Pooh.

Tony 0:03:49 Yes. No.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:52 What's the difference with being commando? How does it help with the heat?

Tony 0:03:57 So for us men, yeah, as you know, one of my nicknames is Baboon Arse.

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:03 Yes.

Tony 0:04:03 So I've got quite a large derriere. I've got little dangly bits.

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:08 Yes.

Tony 0:04:09 And quite big thighs. And I've never ever found a pair of pants, trunks, boxer shorts that are comfortable. So question number 1 for any listeners out there that are remotely interested in this conversation is, do you know of any men's undergarments, briefs, pants, whatever, that are actually comfortable?

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:33 Because— Not Marks's ones.

Tony 0:04:35 No, I've got Marks's ones and they just drive me up the wall. They all cut into me. And but I am a certain shape, so it could be the shape. Anyway, I got so fed up with it last week that one day I thought, oh, I'm gonna dispense with the underpants and just went shorts only. And there's only one word for it really, revolutionary.

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:59 Fantastic.

Tony 0:05:01 Yeah, not got any on at the moment.

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:03 With the— sorry.

Tony 0:05:12 Probably didn't need to say that last bit, but—

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:14 No, I like it. With, with the shorts.

Tony 0:05:17 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:17 We are talking sort of, I know your, I know your work shorts. Yeah. Sort of baggy.

Tony 0:05:21 Nike baggy down to just near the knee.

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:24 Near the knee. Yeah. They're not over the knee though.

Tony 0:05:26 No, not over the knee.

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:27 Now if you are in a certain situation where you are, for instance, up on a ceiling.

Tony 0:05:31 Yes.

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:32 When I say up on the ceiling, sorry, I don't mean Willy Wonka upside down.

Tony 0:05:35 No, no. Sorry, you're on a ladder. I'm on a ladder or whatever.

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:39 How are all the other boys or girls feeling underneath you? They're fine. They can't see anything. Can't, can't, can't get an eyeful.

Tony 0:05:45 No. Fine. Absolutely. Definitely not.

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:47 Fine.

Tony 0:05:47 Those days are long gone.

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:48 Okay. Fair enough.

Tony 0:05:51 Yeah. No chance at all.

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:52 I have to agree with you.

Tony 0:05:54 Mm-hmm.

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:54 Being your sister, I can never find any knickers that aren't very nice because of the shape I am.

Tony 0:06:02 Yeah. And so there you go. I know. So I'm, I am, on the lookout. Yeah, there's all this stuff I read, you know, there's these BioFit, but what are they made out of, baboons or something?

Natalie Cassidy 0:06:14 No, bamboo.

Tony 0:06:15 Bamboo, that's it. Yeah, so they're not made out of bamboo. And then these other ones that people were going on about was made out of bamboo as well. But I'm thinking, that's just— I'm just going to try them and they're going to be rubbish and they'll end up in the bin. So need a recommendation. Or a sponsor. If someone wants to chuck a few at me, give 'em a go, I'll quite happily review. But at the moment I've dispensed and yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:06:40 Well, I think it's fine for this time of year. Yeah. Yeah. I feel that in the deep dark months of winter.

Tony 0:06:47 Winter, yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:06:48 When you're out for a curry in your jeans, I'm not sure what that's gonna do.

Tony 0:06:51 Probably not a good idea, I'd say. So I'm gonna have to, but I've got, you know, I've got a few months to try and find a solution. Fair enough. Whatever that may be. So anyway, this is a national issue, um, and I'm fully expecting some positive and constructive assistance.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:06 Feedback welcome. Feedback, yeah. 07788 20 19 19. I hope you're all having a lovely Monday. It's Auntie Lynnie's birthday today, so don't think I've forgotten. Many happy returns, 'cause I know you listen all the time. You'll be on your way to work, no doubt, or listen to it about 2 o'clock in the morning 'cause you don't go to sleep. But I shall, uh, see you later, and I hope you have a lovely, lovely day.

Tony 0:07:30 Yes.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:31 What else has been going on? How you been?

Tony 0:07:33 Yeah, all right.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:33 Yeah?

Tony 0:07:34 Yeah, I'm back fishing.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:35 Yeah, I've, I've texted. Which is incredible.

Tony 0:07:37 Brilliant. So I just wanna mention a mate of mine, Butch, Butch Murphy and his wife Kim.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:42 Yes.

Tony 0:07:43 So Butch is a very good friend of mine. In the last 2 years when I haven't been able to go because of my back issue and whatever, which is, which is sort of, it hasn't righted itself, but it's got easier. Yeah, it's good. And I'm managing to get out, which is great. There is, when I say there's a handful of people, it's probably 2 people that used to ring me and see how I was.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:59 Mm-hmm.

Tony 0:08:00 And Butch was one of them. So I was very, I'm very grateful for that. And I phoned him today and said, look, I'm gonna come back out fishing. We've got Canal League coming up and hopefully a big, what they call a national, it's like a 90-team event.

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:11 Brilliant.

Tony 0:08:12 In Northampton at the end of September. I'm hoping to fish that with him. And he was really over the moon. So, and he said, oh, I saw you on the telly the other day with your sister. 'Cause his wife Kim was watching it. Oh. And Kim is now listening to the podcast.

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:24 Excellent. Well done, Kim.

Tony 0:08:26 And was converted by their daughter, Ollie, who's a teacher.

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:29 Ah.

Tony 0:08:30 So that's great. Yeah. So I've got 2 listeners there who are quite close to me in terms of, you know, 'cause I'm mates with Butch. So I wanna say thanks for all that. And Butch, thanks for being a good mate. Really appreciate it. And had some terrific news. Paul Hyde and his partner Lisa. Yes. Who we spoke about last time.

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:46 Yes.

Tony 0:08:47 Well, I spoke to Paul today and Lisa's had all her stuff done and all her surgery and she's 99% clear, which is fantastic. Absolutely amazing news. He's really, yeah, he's had a, they've had a really, as lots of people have, with that sort of illness. They've had a terrible few months.

Natalie Cassidy 0:09:04 Of course. The worry.

Tony 0:09:06 Yeah. Yeah. She's gotta have a, a bit of chemo, a bit of radio. Just, they just wanna be sure that if they wanna kill any nasty bits off, the little bits that might be left. But they're very pleased with the outcome.

Natalie Cassidy 0:09:15 That's really good.

Tony 0:09:16 So that's really good.

Natalie Cassidy 0:09:17 Absolutely thrilled.

Tony 0:09:18 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:09:19 Thrilled for you, Lisa. Honestly.

Tony 0:09:20 Yeah. And I'm hoping, I'll speak to him, but I'm hoping we might be able to get 'em a couple of tickets for one of the shows later in the year.

Natalie Cassidy 0:09:25 Of course we will.

Tony 0:09:25 When they can come along and they can meet us all and we can have a little drink and we have a little celebration.

Natalie Cassidy 0:09:30 Sounds absolutely perfect to me. Yeah. Absolutely perfect. So I had a lovely, lovely voice note from our lovely friend who we met at Clapham who has cancer. Sarah.

Tony 0:09:41 Sarah. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Natalie Cassidy 0:09:42 And she went for a big scan and it was on my birthday. Mm-hmm. And she messaged a picture of her going into her scan saying, you are gonna bring me luck.

Tony 0:09:50 Right.

Natalie Cassidy 0:09:51 So I sent a load of hearts and I got a fantastic message only today. Mm-hmm. Saying that all the tumours, the 7 tumours that she has have shrunk.

Tony 0:09:59 That's brilliant.

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:00 And it's just brilliant. Yeah. So there's loads of good news around at the moment. Yeah.

Tony 0:10:03 That's really, that's amazing. So yeah, just positive.

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:05 Positive vibes on this pod for anybody going through something, feeling a bit low. It's Monday, you might feel overwhelmed today, or whatever day you're listening, you might think, oh, I've got loads of things that are piling on top of me and I'm not sure I'm gonna do it. You'll do it. You'll get through whatever it is.

Tony 0:10:24 Yeah, that's right.

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:25 And I hope that our dulcet tones can help you through the next hour.

Tony 0:10:30 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:31 There you go.

Tony 0:10:31 And if, um, thinking about me with no pants has put you off your breakfast, I apologise, but it is what it is. These things have to be said. And, uh, there we are.

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:40 Going back to your friend Butch.

Tony 0:10:42 Yes.

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:43 And you saying that only a couple of people, yeah, have sort of really kept in touch.

Tony 0:10:49 Yes.

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:50 Isn't it a funny thing that— sorry, no, no, I know we've got stuff to talk about, but I wanna Isn't it funny when you really do find out who sort of thinks of you and cares about you?

Tony 0:11:04 I think that's one thing, but there's— it's a little bit deeper than that. Some people just don't know what to say. They don't know what to say, so they don't get in touch.

Natalie Cassidy 0:11:13 And also, people's lives are very busy.

Tony 0:11:15 Yeah, yeah. But a lot of the time, you know, I've got people I've worked with who have not been well, but I've not been in touch because I don't know what to say.

Natalie Cassidy 0:11:27 Mm, yeah, it's very honest of you.

Tony 0:11:30 Yeah, and I honestly don't know what to say. I get things, I ask how are they, and I know one guy, I know his brother, and he— how is he? And he tells me, and— but I can't pick the phone up directly because I don't know what to say to him. That's a bit— I think it's a bit cowardly really, but that's just how I feel.

Natalie Cassidy 0:11:47 No, I think it's really honest.

Tony 0:11:49 Yeah, I think it was some of that as well. Most of it was because people don't really give a fuck, but that's just how it is. They don't, they don't, they don't They don't think of you, they don't worry about— which I understand. Which is absolutely fair.

Natalie Cassidy 0:11:58 Which I understand.

Tony 0:11:58 But I was, if I'm honest, I was quite shocked that there were people that I have been around for years.

Natalie Cassidy 0:12:07 I know. And what would we say, on a, in the season, a weekly basis, so to speak?

Tony 0:12:13 At times. Other times infrequent, but keep in touch and, you know, fish big competitions with them. And not naming no names, but—

Natalie Cassidy 0:12:22 No, no.

Tony 0:12:23 These people won't even know that. But I was quite shocked that I never got a little phone call. Or a text. Or a text. How are you, mate? You know, heard you're not well. Heard you've not been fishing. But there you go. It is what it is.

Natalie Cassidy 0:12:36 It is what it is. And again, it's very different, but I think it's the same if you leave a workplace. Yeah. Like, I'm not mentioning any names. Yeah. But I was in a place for such a long period of time, seeing people on such a regular basis.

Tony 0:12:51 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:12:52 And you think there's a handful of people that are my closest people and the people I get on with the most.

Tony 0:12:59 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:13:01 But part of me went, oh, people just, they just get on, don't they? Yeah, they do. We just get on. However, I've not texted them either. So it's my fault too.

Tony 0:13:11 Yeah, maybe, maybe. But I don't, you know, they're still there. You've moved on, you're doing stuff different. So. I think it depends what, who's on what side of the fence as to who should do the contacting. Yeah, maybe. I've said it before, years ago, I had friends. Odd ones might listen to this, probably not. They might know people that do. We were best, best mates. Thought we'd be in touch forever. Some of them I haven't seen for 35 years. Real shame. But you just lose touch and stuff, you know.

Natalie Cassidy 0:13:41 But I think there are people that are very good at keeping in touch.

Tony 0:13:44 There are. And you know the ones who annoy this— sorry, this, this This, again, this is a bit of a tangent, but I like people that keep in touch.

Natalie Cassidy 0:13:53 Yeah.

Tony 0:13:53 It's quite nice. Yeah, a little message or maybe a little card at Christmas and birthdays. But what really used to piss me off, not piss me off, I just didn't see the point of it. We used to get Christmas cards from people that Sharon used to work with.

Natalie Cassidy 0:14:10 Yeah.

Tony 0:14:11 So she left work, when she left work, yeah. And she didn't get in touch, keep in touch with people. There was, she was just on a Christmas card list. And we used to get Christmas cards and in it was a review of that person's and their family's year.

Natalie Cassidy 0:14:27 Oh, okay.

Tony 0:14:28 So they would, they would make a, what would you call it?

Natalie Cassidy 0:14:33 I dunno, year in the life of. A leaflet.

Tony 0:14:35 It would go all through what they've been doing and who's been that and what, this one went to college and the dog died and what holidays they've been on.

Natalie Cassidy 0:14:43 Okay, hang on a minute. I'm gonna stop you. Okay.

Tony 0:14:47 Yes, it's way before social media.

Natalie Cassidy 0:14:49 They were onto something, weren't they?

Tony 0:14:50 They were.

Natalie Cassidy 0:14:50 'Cause every bastard now, we're looking at everyone's review.

Tony 0:14:53 I completely understand. Every day of the week.

Natalie Cassidy 0:14:54 They're very clever.

Tony 0:14:55 They're clever, but for casual acquaintances, I used to, she used to open it and I used to think, what on earth makes this person think I give a flying fuck about what's been going on in their world?

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:06 They were doing Facebook before Facebook existed. Well, where are these people? In a roundabout.

Tony 0:15:11 They're probably, they're probably, currently writing this year's Christmas leaflet to put in their Christmas card.

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:17 Or they're making a fortune online.

Tony 0:15:19 No, they won't be. No, they won't be. They're too boring. And I used to just— and I just honestly, we used to get 2 or 3 Christmas cards from people who I've never met and were only passing acquaintances of Sharon's. And they would have this thing and it was chapter and verse about their whole world. And it's nice if you're their cousin or you're their you know, mum-in-law or whatever it might be. Yeah. But to just send this stuff out randomly to people that they hardly know, I just thought—

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:47 Well, it's probably a bulk order, innit? And they just smash it in every card they send.

Tony 0:15:51 No, they've done it at work and photocopied it and printed it at work so it don't cost 'em anything. So—

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:56 If they've got the time to do it, good luck to 'em.

Tony 0:15:59 Yeah, yeah. But I just, I showed no interest.

Natalie Cassidy 0:16:01 No, fair enough.

Tony 0:16:03 Whatsoever.

Natalie Cassidy 0:16:04 We have a Christmas card list.

Tony 0:16:06 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:16:06 And I think there's a lot of people on there that I don't really talk to throughout the year. I love a Christmas card. I know it's a dying art, but I love getting a card through the post from, I don't know.

Tony 0:16:19 Diane and Jim.

Natalie Cassidy 0:16:20 Diane and Jim, or Ian from work who's a cameraman who I've not seen, and Mark's got his address, and you get a little card through, and I like that. In fact, this very week I got a beautiful card. I'll show you later. And it was a beautiful handwritten card, long card from a lady who lived in the village when we first moved here. That's nice. She was a lovely, lovely lady. And she was at the village hall and she did bits and pieces with the brownies and all that sort of stuff. And it was when Eliza really wanted to learn to sew.

Tony 0:16:55 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:16:56 So I asked her if she'd come round once a week to help her sew. So she's obviously kept my address and she used to have a chat with Dad.

Tony 0:17:03 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:03 And she's watched the care documentary. Lovely. And she sent me the most beautiful card with her memories of us.

Tony 0:17:10 That's different. That's really beautiful.

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:13 Lovely memories of us. I've watched your show. Your dad would be proud. I hope you're all well. We've moved here now. And a bit of info. And I am gonna sit down and I'm gonna write her a letter.

Tony 0:17:22 Yeah. She should write one back. She has taken the time. Yeah. That's just common courtesy.

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:26 It's really, yeah. To take the time to sit because she's watched something, she's thought of us as a family.

Tony 0:17:32 And on that exact sort of vein of thought or whatever it is, or that subject. Yeah. If I get a Moonpig card, it goes in the bin. Don't even open it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:46 Oh, shut up.

Tony 0:17:48 Not interested. If someone cannot buy a card, open it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:54 I do Moonpig cards for people.

Tony 0:17:56 Write 10 words in it, Right. And put a stamp on it. I, I don't wanna know.

Natalie Cassidy 0:18:01 I hear you.

Tony 0:18:03 And I know we are probably never gonna get sponsored by Moonpig as a result of it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:18:07 No, because I use Moonpig all the time.

Tony 0:18:09 Well then that's—

Natalie Cassidy 0:18:10 I've just done James, my brother-in-law.

Tony 0:18:12 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:18:13 Jenny. Yeah. Auntie Jenny's husband James was 40 and I did a Moonpig card with all the bits and pieces and I've sent him a lovely card. He thanked me for the card. He didn't throw it in the bin. I know what you're saying, but if you are like, oh my goodness me, I can't get to a shop, I'm there tomorrow, I've got that tomorrow, I've got that. Yeah, Moonpig is absolutely brilliant. Okay, so I'm not, I'm not as organised as I should be.

Tony 0:18:39 No, I'll temper that with, okay, it's got its place.

Natalie Cassidy 0:18:42 Yeah.

Tony 0:18:42 And I think the fact there are no decent card shops anymore don't help because they've all gone skint or they've all been—

Natalie Cassidy 0:18:47 Because of Moonpig.

Tony 0:18:48 Because of Moonpig. Yeah. Um, so it's got its place, but for me Uh, sorry, I'm old-fashioned and I just think as soon as you get one of them, it's sort of— I used to get it off of an estranged family member that I won't mention.

Natalie Cassidy 0:19:01 What, a Moonpig card?

Tony 0:19:03 I used to get a Moonpig card from an estranged family member.

Natalie Cassidy 0:19:06 Hang on, Emma, just, just, um, do a little noise. Who was it? Did a Moonpig?

Tony 0:19:13 Used to do a Moonpig card every, every year.

Natalie Cassidy 0:19:15 Oh, right. Okay, fair enough. Yeah.

Tony 0:19:19 Yeah. And I used to, I used to—

Natalie Cassidy 0:19:21 Now you see, every year is a piss take.

Tony 0:19:23 I saw. Yeah, exactly. I will do one.

Natalie Cassidy 0:19:25 I just, I'm not organised enough.

Tony 0:19:28 Oh, okay. Maybe I'm doing them down, but I just, for me, for me, right? So a close family member.

Natalie Cassidy 0:19:34 Yeah, agreed.

Tony 0:19:35 It's basically, it's basically like them saying, look mate, I can't be fucking bothered to buy you a card, so I've done this shitty thing online that Sort of that, that sort of does the job, but you know it doesn't do the job because it's very impersonal and it's not— doesn't say happy birthday in any way, shape, or form. It says, here's something I got off the internet because I couldn't be bothered to walk down the shop. There you go.

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:03 Well, each to their own. I feel terrible now for James's card.

Tony 0:20:09 Oh dear. Oh dear.

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:11 I see moon pigs all the time. Ah, my friend Theresa.

Tony 0:20:15 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:15 She sent me a moon pig for my birthday.

Tony 0:20:17 Well, I— Very happy with it. Maybe you're happy with it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:21 I was very happy with it. The thought. I was, I was pleased to have been thought of by someone I've not seen for 6 months.

Tony 0:20:27 That's fine.

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:29 Which is quite nice.

Tony 0:20:30 It's quite nice. It's quite nice.

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:32 Thoughts? Thoughts on the, the cards?

Tony 0:20:35 And also, I'm talking about at a time, sorry, this was a few years ago. Yes, because we haven't really—

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:42 yeah, yeah, spoken.

Tony 0:20:43 And that was at a time when you had Clinton's and you had this one and you did— WH Smith's was still open and, you know, they're all still knocking about actually. Well, I'm not so sure. They're all vape shops and stuff now and betting shops. Um, so there were still options. Um, you know, you go to Sainsbury's, had a decent card bit.

Natalie Cassidy 0:21:03 Sainsbury's got a decent card bit. Marks& Spencer's is good.

Tony 0:21:07 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:21:08 And we've got a lovely independent shop in Ware. Ware. That's Open and Iris. Lovely girls in there. And they've got some cracking cards. Yeah. Some really nice cards. But yes, I have been known to moonpig it.

Tony 0:21:21 Well, all right.

Natalie Cassidy 0:21:22 There you go.

Tony 0:21:23 Let's leave it there.

Natalie Cassidy 0:21:23 Let's leave it there.

Natalie Cassidy 0:23:56 We had a lovely message about the Care documentary because obviously you and I were on it together yesterday.

Tony 0:24:05 Yeah.

Speaker H 0:24:06 Hi Nat, it's Julie from Somerset. Nothing to do with the pod, but I've just been watching your programme, your caring programme, and seen the episode with you and Tony. I can really relate to— it was like watching friends have a chat because I know you both from the pod. So seeing your little chat on there just now was just heartwarming, and I just needed— I felt the need to phone in and tell you. So keep doing what you're doing.

Speaker H 0:24:42 Thank you. Love the pod. Maybe a subject for one of your pods would be the programme you did and what you got from it. I did social science years ago, so I can kind of relate to what you're doing and what you're learning. And at the time when I went through my course, I was going through bad stuff with my kids, so what I was being taught Like you with your dad, you can relate to it because you've done it.

Speaker H 0:25:14 I was going through the same stuff with my kids as what I was learning. So it's been a great programme. It's lovely to watch it. And like I said, it was really good, really heartwarming to see how close you and Tony are. So keep up the good work.

Speaker H 0:25:32 Love listening to you. Take care. Love from Julie in Somerset. Bye.

Natalie Cassidy 0:25:37 I love Julie in Somerset.

Tony 0:25:39 A lovely message.

Natalie Cassidy 0:25:40 Really great. She is fantastic. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, it's gone down really well.

Tony 0:25:45 It just shows that you pulled the wool over people's eyes though, really, isn't it? Because we can't fucking stand each other.

Natalie Cassidy 0:25:51 Hate you.

Tony 0:25:52 Hate you too.

Natalie Cassidy 0:25:53 Detest you.

Tony 0:25:54 Detest the— I hate your face.

Natalie Cassidy 0:25:56 Oh God, he's coming up tonight.

Tony 0:25:57 Oh no, not him again.

Natalie Cassidy 0:25:59 Pretend again.

Tony 0:26:00 Oh God, gotta pretend. Fake smiles. Hello, how's your week been? I don't care. How's your week been? Yeah, it's been fine. How's yours? Well, come on, Carol, how's your been?

Natalie Cassidy 0:26:13 No, people have really enjoyed it. It's good. Brilliant. It's gone down a storm.

Tony 0:26:18 Excellent.

Natalie Cassidy 0:26:19 So what I wanted to say to everybody is there is a very special bonus episode on Wednesday because, would you, Adam and Evie, this week's Carers Week. The 8th to the 11th, which I was a bit— I thought, why have they put my documentary on the telly on Carers Week?

Tony 0:26:33 It's odd, isn't it?

Natalie Cassidy 0:26:34 It was just a bit of a shame 'cause it's so close together. Anyway, by the by, if you haven't seen it, it's Carers Week, so download it on iPlayer, watch it on iPlayer. There are 8 now to watch. They're all on there. Natalie Cassidy, Caring Together. Have a little look at it if you haven't seen it. And if you have, I'm gonna be doing a Nat's Chat solo episode, calling up a few listeners to talk about their experiences as a carer or being cared for or what they thought of the programme. So that's coming up for you on Wednesday. Right then, I popped a message out about parenting earlier.

Tony 0:27:08 I saw that. My phone was on meltdown.

Natalie Cassidy 0:27:11 Got quite a lot of response. I think what we're gonna do, I'm gonna make a decision based on what you said when you walked in the door.

Tony 0:27:22 I think so.

Natalie Cassidy 0:27:23 I'm gonna make an executive decision.

Tony 0:27:25 I like executive decisions. Is that right? I make 'em all the time, apparently. So there you go.

Natalie Cassidy 0:27:30 Okay. We're gonna start this. We're gonna have as many messages and we'll have a little chat about each message now.

Tony 0:27:39 Yep.

Natalie Cassidy 0:27:40 And then what we're gonna do is do a part 2 for our next episode.

Tony 0:27:44 Okay.

Natalie Cassidy 0:27:45 And we can do our little general catch-up messages. And then we'll go into part 2 of parenting cuz it's a bloody big subject.

Tony 0:27:52 It's massive. Do you know what would, I think would be a really, really good idea?

Natalie Cassidy 0:27:55 Go on.

Tony 0:27:56 If we started up a podcast.

Natalie Cassidy 0:27:58 Yeah.

Tony 0:27:59 Just about parenting and we could call it something like, oh no, parenting. Oh yeah, that's it. Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:06 Oh golly.

Tony 0:28:07 Oh golly.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:08 I'm a parent. It's a cracking idea.

Tony 0:28:11 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:11 Do you think it'd catch on though?

Tony 0:28:13 I think, well, I dunno. Probably not actually. I mean, who's gonna sit there talking about being a parent and, and get loads of listeners and stuff. It's just not gonna happen, is it?

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:22 I don't think so.

Tony 0:28:22 Nah, we're barking up the wrong tree. Forget it. Forget that.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:24 It's a nice idea, but I don't think— It is, it is.

Tony 0:28:26 No, no, I think it's, uh, I just don't think it's us really.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:29 No.

Tony 0:28:29 I think we'll carry on talking about tins of paint.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:31 And, um, going commando.

Tony 0:28:33 Yes.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:34 Perfect. So I put the question out.

Tony 0:28:37 Mm-hmm.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:39 Just about parenting. I, I, I did a podcast the other day and it's called If You Don't Laugh with 2 wonderful girls. It's actually a grief podcast.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:47 It's great. If You Don't Laugh, I'm plugging it. Go and listen to it if you like mine and Linnie's grief pods. This is every week they talk about grief and they've lost their mum and they're lovely young girls. Great.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:58 But we got onto the subject of parenting and I was thinking about myself as a parent and how I've surprised myself with how I parent. And it, it got me thinking about it's because of how I was parented, obviously. And I think that is the case for everybody. In fact, we've got a really nice message here before I carry on.

Speaker I 0:29:25 Hi, Nat.

Speaker I 0:29:25 Hi, Tony. So I've just seen your message regarding parenting for your pod. Um, you brought up a point, Nat, whereby you said, do we feel that our upbringing has impacted on the way that we parent our children today? For me personally, I believe that we are— we're all a product of our upbringing, and I do believe that it, it does influence us in, in some ways, in, in the way that we parent our children today. You also asked, do you think you're a good parent?

Speaker I 0:29:57 Yes, I think I'm a good parent. Do I think there's any such thing as a perfect parent? No, I don't. But at the end of the day, if we're bringing our children up to have morals respect, you know, respecting others, and you're encouraging them and supporting them to do well in life and to be successful, then I think we're winning. I think that's all we want for our children, isn't it?

Speaker I 0:30:25 Is for them to grow up to be decent people with respect, with manners, morals, and to do well in life. And I think if you're bringing your child up in that way then I think we're all doing an amazing job. As always, guys, love the pod, and you both enjoy the rest of your week. Bye.

Natalie Cassidy 0:30:46 Thank you, James. Lovely message.

Tony 0:30:48 Yeah, well, he's bang on really with the— what you want the outcome to be.

Natalie Cassidy 0:30:54 Absolutely.

Tony 0:30:55 Well, some people don't care about that, but—

Natalie Cassidy 0:30:57 Well, yeah, I'm going back to— sorry, I've played James's message because we've got so many to play. But going back to what I was saying is, in a nutshell, I think for me, I've shocked myself, and I think other people are shocked at how lenient I'm— maybe lenient's the wrong word. I'm quite relaxed as a mum of a teenager. I've gone completely the opposite as to how I was brought up.

Tony 0:31:24 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:31:25 Because I know what I did. I lied.

Tony 0:31:28 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:31:28 I covered it up.

Tony 0:31:29 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:31:29 I stayed at friends' houses where their mums felt sorry for me.

Tony 0:31:32 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:31:32 And they let me do what I wanna do.

Tony 0:31:34 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:31:35 And I did not want Eliza to do that. Mm-hmm.

Natalie Cassidy 0:31:38 'Cause it makes me sad for Mum. Mm. It actually makes me sad that I couldn't talk to Mum. Mm-hmm. That I lied to her.

Natalie Cassidy 0:31:46 Makes me really sad. Mm-hmm. So I would much rather have a relationship where I've caught up to her. They're teenagers. Look, I don't wanna know everything, thanks.

Natalie Cassidy 0:31:57 And there'll be lies and there'll be stuff that I don't know. But the, the real basic, I know where she is. I know, I know. Yeah. I do know, I know where she's at all times.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:05 I know if she's in trouble, she would ring me. And I know the things that I feel that I need to know to keep her safe. And I feel very honoured that she talks to me.

Tony 0:32:15 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:16 And I think that's because of my strict upbringing.

Tony 0:32:19 I mean, it's such a massive subject, isn't it? No, I know. Where do you start really? So what James has said there, and he listed a number of traits or behaviours or whatever you wanna call it, how you would like your kids to grow up and turn into this rounded, intelligent, hardworking, respectful human being.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:41 Yes.

Tony 0:32:42 Right? Which I completely agree with.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:44 Yep.

Tony 0:32:44 The problem is how do you achieve it? And what are the lines that you draw? How do you balance your work with bringing the kids up and instilling those things in them? Can you overdo it? Can you overdo the, I want them to turn out as wonderful human beings, and then in some ways make mistakes? Which I think I have, without a doubt.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:12 That's interesting.

Tony 0:33:14 And I think the minefield is achieving that outcome. It's achieving what you're trying to get to.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:25 So when do you achieve that? Because your children are always your children.

Tony 0:33:29 I think when— I think—

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:32 Your children are always your children.

Tony 0:33:33 I know they're always your children, but I think once they start, in simple terms, once they start to become reasonably independent, once they start to have their own thoughts and their, their own opinions, and they're on a level with you in terms of you're all adults.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:51 Mm.

Tony 0:33:51 At that point, if you can look at them and say, well, I actually feel that person is in some way what I was aiming for as a parent, then you can feel some sense of achievement.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:09 But that human being that you've brought into the world isn't necessarily going to be a human being that you agree with all the time.

Tony 0:34:17 I'm not saying it is.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:18 No, I'm just saying, because I find I go, oh well, I feel like they should just, everything I say should be right.

Tony 0:34:27 And— Yeah, I agree. So I'm the same.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:29 You know, everything I, I've brought you up to think this. Exactly. But they'll come up with their own thoughts. But they'll come.

Tony 0:34:34 So mine, mine are 23 and 27. And there comes a point when you actually, you can't think like that.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:40 No.

Tony 0:34:41 Because they are their own people. They're adults. They've got their own minds. They've got their own ambitions. They've got their own opinions. And so, but if you can look at 'em and say, well, actually, if you frame it in James's words, if you can tick a couple of those off, and there's a couple that you're close to, then I think—

Natalie Cassidy 0:35:05 You've done all right.

Tony 0:35:06 You've done okay. I don't think you've ever done your job. I don't think you've ever done it right completely. And I think what people forget is that you don't get any practice for it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:35:16 Absolutely right.

Tony 0:35:17 One day you, you know, you decide to have a child and you go through the pregnancy and then this little thing turns up and you'd go home and make a cup of tea and go, what do we do now? And look at each other. And then you spend the next 18, 20, 25 years trying to work out how this all works.

Natalie Cassidy 0:35:36 So true.

Tony 0:35:37 Right? What do I do to try and make sure— now I'm gonna be blunt here. My kids grew up in an affluent area of North London. They went to a nice parochial primary school just around the corner.

Natalie Cassidy 0:35:56 Yep.

Tony 0:35:57 I was fortunate that they are both intelligent. They both passed the necessary tests at the 11+, and they both went to a very good grammar school. Mm-hmm. 15 minutes up the road from us. My massive concern is, was, and carries on to be drugs.

Natalie Cassidy 0:36:15 Yep.

Tony 0:36:15 My massive concern, because I went to a school that it was mixed.

Tony 0:36:20 It was a grammar school and then they changed it to comprehensive. And I had friends who died because of drugs. I had friends who I thought were friends were glue sniffers and would take— had solvent abuse issues. I saw them doing it. Terrified me.

Tony 0:36:37 Terrified me. So that's always been my thing. Your fear. Is drugs, risk-taking, you know, being in positions where you're compromised. And, and that was my priority.

Tony 0:36:50 So One of my massive goals was if my kids could get to their mid-20s and not have indulged in that behaviour, they might have done a little thingy thing. I'm not saying that. I'm talking about—

Natalie Cassidy 0:37:06 No, you're talking about being regularly—

Tony 0:37:08 Yes. Who are regularly taking, you know, ketamine and all that shit that goes on.

Natalie Cassidy 0:37:14 And changing their life. And change. Yeah. And changing the path of their life.

Tony 0:37:18 Yeah. And I know, and again, this is being brutally honest, I know of at least 2 hands, on 2 hands, I know what I've been told or what I found out from their interactions of kids that have gone miles off the rails. Their parents go, oh, they've had some issues. Mm-hmm. No, the parents are too lenient. Parents let 'em do what they want. Parents never put their foot down. Parents were scared to shout. Parents were scared to do what had to be done at the time to curb that behaviour. Right? Yeah. And I'm sorry, I feel very passionate about this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:37:57 No, I feel—

Tony 0:37:57 All this bollocks about, well, you know, we don't know how they ended up sort of being involved with drugs. And then I'd say, what? What, when they was 12 and 13 and they was out a weekend and you didn't know where they were 'cause you wanted to go to parties or you'd go on holiday and find out that, they'd all had like 4 parties when, when, while you was away, and you didn't ask where they were and you didn't know what. And when they come home all goggly-eyed and talking funny and didn't smell of alcohol, you didn't think there was something going on. And there's all these, this stuff. Sorry. And I just—

Natalie Cassidy 0:38:27 you're passionate about it.

Tony 0:38:28 And I just can't, and I cannot fathom how or what it is. It's, it's them cleansing their soul, their conscience. They're going, oh my God, my son's addicted to ketamine and all this other stuff. And, and I, and I, I don't know what happened. And then I think, well, you were smoking drugs with them in their bedroom when they was 14. What do you think's gonna happen?

Natalie Cassidy 0:38:49 Oh yeah, I mean, in those cases—

Tony 0:38:52 So sorry, I'm, I'm going on a bit. I apologise. The point I make, I was always terrified of that. And through a mixture of some sort of parenting, some sort of scaring the life out of them, some sort of threatening, The fact that they're not risk takers and they're both intelligent, I've managed to get them to where I want them to be. And as a byproduct of that, do you know what? They are very, very good human beings. They are caring, they are respectful, they don't break the law, they do worry about other people.

Natalie Cassidy 0:39:26 Yeah.

Tony 0:39:26 The road is tortuous. Tortuous.

Natalie Cassidy 0:39:30 Well, I agree. But something I need to play, which I think is very important, Is there'll be people listening to this chat now. Mm-hmm. And when they had a child, they thought they'd go, go through all of what we're talking about, but it was very different for them.

Speaker J 0:39:47 Afternoon, Nat and Tone. Hope, uh, this message finds you well.

Speaker J 0:39:50 I was just, uh, seeing on Insta about Tone coming over for a chat about parenting. So my parenting journey has hasn't been an easy one. I didn't have an easy upbringing, so I wanted to, you know, break the, the cycle and, uh, be the best mum I can. I do think I am the best mum I can be for my son Jack. You've heard Jack in the background of the podcast.

Speaker J 0:40:22 Jack's non-verbal, autistic, epileptic. Life wasn't— isn't what I thought it would be. I had, you know, being pregnant, I imagined me and Jack riding to school on his little bike together, you know, um, going to his plays, his prom, bringing his first girlfriend home. But unfortunately, that's not going to happen, which is— A process that I've had to go through. Grief, almost.

Speaker J 0:40:55 I've had to, like, grieve the child I thought I was going to have, and I'm not going to be a grandparent. Jack is the only child. I'm not going to see Jack get married. So yeah, they're processes I've had to deal with because, yeah, it's, it's not going to happen. So yeah, parenting has been very hard, very challenging.

Speaker J 0:41:17 But I have to always just celebrate all the positives. The milestones come later than your average child, but we celebrate them massively. He's a wonderful, wonderful human being. I'm so proud of him. But yeah, it's definitely not what I thought, and he won't be flying the nest because, you know, he needs full-time Care all around the clock, and we'll, we'll do.

Speaker J 0:41:46 So yeah, it has been tough, but yeah, he's my boy and I love him very much. I hope you guys are well, and I finished my kitchen, so I will send photos to follow. Take care, guys.

Natalie Cassidy 0:41:59 And there you go.

Tony 0:42:01 Well, how brutally honest is that?

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:03 Just so— made me cry listening to that. And again, Carers Week, So, I thought it was really important to play that. We can sit here and talk about how many exams they're gonna go through and what aggravation with friends they're gonna have. And, you know, there's always somebody worse off or going through something that is day in, day out care. And they, you know, you have to love your children, don't you? And going back to what we were saying earlier and the passion, and I get it. Yeah. I feel exactly the same as you. I think there are unlucky people that can get dragged into things.

Tony 0:42:42 Yeah, I think, um, I think with the thing, you know, the thing we were talking about, if, if you've— so you can have— it's like 2 ends of the spectrum. You can have— you can be unlucky— not unlucky, but unfortunate that you, you've, you've got a child who's easily influenced, hasn't got the power to say no.

Natalie Cassidy 0:43:02 Peer pressure.

Tony 0:43:02 Peer pressure, all that. There's that. And then you've got the other end of the spectrum where you've got the risk takers and the boundary pushers. You know, my Evie had friends that were— I mean, it was scary at 13. She wouldn't dream of even thinking about doing it, but they were doing this stuff and they— because they wanted to push those boundaries. So you're absolutely right, it's not all down to the parents. I'm not suggesting that for a minute.

Natalie Cassidy 0:43:28 But I think there are cases.

Tony 0:43:29 There are, there are, but there are— but even then, I think I'm probably gonna get shot down and slaughtered for it. I think there are far too many parents that are not prepared to have those difficult confrontational conversations and situations. I think you're dicing with death if you're not prepared to do that. So the message that we just— you just played, when I say brutally honest, for someone to lay out their situation and use the term, it's been a period of grieving, you're grieving your child you thought you were gonna have and you haven't got.

Natalie Cassidy 0:44:12 Yeah.

Tony 0:44:12 It's fucking heartbreaking. I mean, it's absolutely— I can't even imagine being in that position. Although I did work with a guy once, he was a lovely Scottish— he was a— electrical engineer. He was a lovely man, softly spoken, from Edinburgh or something, you know, one of those parts of Scotland where they're not like, you know, like the Glaswegians are quite— it's got a very strong accent, isn't it? And, uh, we were chatting away and he'd talk about his son Adam and Adam, you know, Adam this and Adam that. And then I found out that Adam was severely disabled.

Natalie Cassidy 0:44:43 Yeah, yeah.

Tony 0:44:44 He'd been denied, um, because of the way they delivered him, he was denied oxygen for 8 minutes. And he was severely brain damaged. Constant care, adapted home.

Tony 0:44:55 And he never spoke about it. And then we was at a Christmas do once, and we just got chatting and whatever. And he'd never drank really, but he'd had a little drink. And he sort of said, then he was honest with me. Mm-hmm.

Tony 0:45:09 And it was the same, exactly the same feelings where they had to go through a grieving process and realise what they'd done. they've got to do for the rest, what they've lost or what they've thought they were gonna have and haven't got. And then the reality of what they had to do for the rest of their life.

Natalie Cassidy 0:45:26 Yeah.

Tony 0:45:26 And he said it was, you know, it could break people.

Natalie Cassidy 0:45:30 Oh, massively.

Tony 0:45:31 But he got on with it and he was an admirable, wonderful man.

Natalie Cassidy 0:45:34 Oh.

Tony 0:45:34 Yeah, he really was. Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:45:36 Does he send you a Moonpig card?

Tony 0:45:39 No. He sends me one of them things with the fucking A4 pictures in it. No, he doesn't. He doesn't. He— I haven't, I haven't heard from him. I've never spoken to him for God knows how long and probably never will. But he was a lovely bloke. Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:45:53 And lovely Jade, who sent that message, sent us some pictures of the kitchen.

Tony 0:45:58 I saw.

Natalie Cassidy 0:45:59 Yeah. Um, what did you think?

Tony 0:46:00 Lovely. She's gone for a, like, a fern green, which is very, very de-rigger at the moment.

Natalie Cassidy 0:46:07 My favourite bit of green, jade.

Tony 0:46:08 Yeah. Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:46:09 And your name is Jade. Yes. There we are.

Tony 0:46:11 Yeah. Yeah. So, and funny enough, we had a kitchen delivered last Thursday. Thursday. Yeah. Last Thursday, which is that same colour.

Natalie Cassidy 0:46:19 Looking good, girl.

Tony 0:46:20 We're putting it in as we speak. So yeah. Lovely.

Natalie Cassidy 0:46:22 Well done.

Tony 0:46:24 Very on trend.

Natalie Cassidy 0:48:35 Let's have a listen to this one, Tom.

Speaker L 0:48:40 Hi, Nat and team. Thinking about your question, I don't parent as I thought I would. I thought I'd be a lot kind of stricter and follow all the rules. But actually, I've turned into probably an easygoing kind of parent.

Speaker L 0:48:58 I think my upbringing had a huge impact on me. I was raised really strictly and lots and lots of rules, and so it made me rebel massively and do things in secret. And, um, I don't want that with my 3. I've got 3 amazing kids, 2 teenagers, one younger. But because I think I've got a good balance of I'm firm where I need to be, softer where I think I should be, it means that they tell me things and I don't think there's that much I don't know about what they're up to or what they're doing.

Speaker L 0:49:35 And I think it creates a bit of safety and stability as well. It's hard. Parenting is like the hardest job. And, you know, I remember when my first was born and I felt like I'd been slapped around the face with a wet kipper. God, I didn't know what I was doing.

Speaker L 0:49:50 And I used to worry all the time and it just felt too much. But now, all these years later, my eldest being 16, my youngest being 8, I think what a privilege it is, but how hard it is. And no manual can tell you, and every child is completely different. I hope this helps the podcast. Maybe not, probably rambled too much, but thanks for listening anyway.

Speaker L 0:50:14 Bye.

Natalie Cassidy 0:50:14 Thanks, Lisa.

Tony 0:50:16 So what Lisa said there, again, we've touched on it. She's soft when she thinks she needs to be, and then she, you know, ups her game and becomes tougher. It's where do you draw that line? It's a very difficult line to draw.

Natalie Cassidy 0:50:32 Very, very.

Tony 0:50:33 And I've— I, if I'm honest, I've— bringing, you know, with my two, I was probably a little bit too tough at times. I would admit that. There's probably times looking back now where I think, Probably overdid it a little bit there, but I didn't want them to be the ones running around in restaurants. You know, we had kids come home and they'd come in and just start jumping all over the sofa.

Natalie Cassidy 0:50:57 No, I know.

Tony 0:50:58 Kids that, they just— But I say it because I do it. They've obviously never been taught how to act in someone else's home. They did it at home and thought they could come and just jump all over the sofa. You know, when kids come home, bring their kids over for dinner or whatever.

Natalie Cassidy 0:51:12 But I do it. I do it. Don't do this, you've gotta do that. Yeah, make sure you do this. And I think, is it bad? But no, it's, it's good to have rules.

Tony 0:51:22 And it's very— but that's what I'm saying. You've gotta have boundaries. You have to. But that line you draw between getting it right and then overdoing it or underdoing it is just so impossible. It's so difficult.

Natalie Cassidy 0:51:33 But also it changes. Every goalpost changes. So I was very, very strict, I feel, with Certain things like that, I always shout, stop jumping on the sofa. You don't do that. If I see it at someone else's house, say, you don't do that at home. Same as walking in and out from the garden around Linda's the other day. Joni's coming with her shoes on. I said, hang on.

Tony 0:51:53 Yeah. You don't do that at home. You take your shoes off.

Natalie Cassidy 0:51:56 You don't walk through people's houses with shoes on. So I can be very firm with stuff like that. Yeah. You know, I'll get a cab for Eliza, from her mates at half 10 at night on a weekday cuz she said she's got no homework and I go, all right then.

Tony 0:52:10 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:52:11 So it's a bit mad really, innit?

Tony 0:52:12 But what you are doing all the time is you're picking your battles and you're looking, I read somewhere, I want my children to be more successful than me.

Natalie Cassidy 0:52:21 Well, right.

Tony 0:52:23 I don't, I don't necessarily wanna see other people beat, but, but they will be. But I genuinely want my kids to achieve more than I have.

Natalie Cassidy 0:52:30 But why is that? Because you're a high achiever?

Tony 0:52:32 No, no, no. You aspire.

Natalie Cassidy 0:52:34 You're a great person. No, you aspire for your kids.

Tony 0:52:36 No, I'm not talking about personal traits. I'm saying as a parent, you should aspire for your children to achieve more, to be more successful. That's what I feel. Yeah. I want them to become that person that's, you know, you say, look at them, look what they're doing, look how good they're doing. That's for me is, I think that's an achievement in my eyes. Yeah. There's no one else wants to see other people do well. It's quite rare. You know, they don't, they just, people are not like that.

Natalie Cassidy 0:53:04 I do.

Tony 0:53:05 Well, all right, sorry.

Natalie Cassidy 0:53:07 No, we're having a discussion. I do, I like to see people do well.

Tony 0:53:10 What I'm saying is you're very, very, very rare. Most, and I'm not talking about our listeners here because most of our listeners who write in or give us voice notes and stuff, they're really nice people. I'm talking about people I come across, I've come across in the past and whatever. And most of them, they don't wanna see you. Even people you think are friends, you find out afterwards, they don't really wanna see you well.

Natalie Cassidy 0:53:33 No, I've known a lot of people in my life that don't wanna see me well. I wanna see you do well.

Tony 0:53:37 Yeah. A lot. And they'll pretend they do, but they don't.

Natalie Cassidy 0:53:39 No, you can tell in my life also.

Tony 0:53:41 Yeah. So the point I'm making is, is that I genuinely, or let's put it another way, if my kids were doing, ended up doing much better than I did, I would be pleased for 'em.

Natalie Cassidy 0:53:52 Of course.

Tony 0:53:53 Yeah. I wouldn't be, oh, they're doing better than me. That's a bit embarrassing, you know?

Natalie Cassidy 0:53:58 Oh yeah. No, that's—

Tony 0:53:59 No, but there, there are people like that. Yeah. That's mad. That's the point I'm making. I know.

Natalie Cassidy 0:54:01 Yeah. That's crazy. So for me, I think the biggest achievement for me will be that I, and I know it's a cliché and people won't believe it. I just want them to, I really want 'em to be happy, but I mean properly, proper content.

Tony 0:54:20 Well, I think you are.

Natalie Cassidy 0:54:21 I don't want them to be—

Tony 0:54:22 I think, I think that's, again, we're having a discussion and we're being honest. I think the chances of that happening in this day and age are minute.

Natalie Cassidy 0:54:33 They're hard, aren't they?

Tony 0:54:34 I think they're minute.

Natalie Cassidy 0:54:35 Yeah.

Tony 0:54:35 And the only way, as far as I can see, what that really means, and again, there's probably gonna be people screaming at their radio saying I'm talking rubbish. Contentment is almost impossible to find unless you do exactly what you want to do in life. Yes. You do. You live exactly where you want to live. You have exactly the friends you want.

Natalie Cassidy 0:55:03 Yep.

Tony 0:55:03 You have exactly the influences you want.

Natalie Cassidy 0:55:05 And the job you want.

Tony 0:55:06 Exactly. You do exactly the job you want. And you do that without any stress and interference and nastiness. And the chances of finding that are very, very minute.

Natalie Cassidy 0:55:16 Yeah.

Tony 0:55:17 So I say, I use the term, I'd like them to be happy.

Natalie Cassidy 0:55:21 Yes.

Tony 0:55:23 And there are different levels of happiness. What I really mean is I'm hoping they would— when, when they get to a certain point, they feel reasonably happy with how they've ended up and what it's given them.

Natalie Cassidy 0:55:42 They won't look back on their lives and think, oh, weren't great.

Tony 0:55:46 No. And I think But I think people saying, I would, you know, I want my children to be content and happy. Well, unless you're, you know, you love yoga and you're gonna go and live in a yoga retreat in Thailand.

Natalie Cassidy 0:56:02 That could be Joni. Let's be honest.

Tony 0:56:04 Yeah, it could be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:56:06 The way she is.

Tony 0:56:07 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:56:07 I feel like she could, I dunno what she's gonna end up doing.

Tony 0:56:11 No.

Natalie Cassidy 0:56:11 But it's a possibility she could end up somewhere teaching some sort of dance. Yeah. Possibly.

Tony 0:56:18 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:56:19 Yeah. I'd be devastated. Mm-hmm. Because she wouldn't be near me then. Mm-hmm. So I say all this shit. Yeah. I say to you, I'd love them to be content. Yeah. And I want them to do everything they want. Mm-hmm. And they've gotta go out there and follow their dreams. Cause I, I just want them to be happy.

Tony 0:56:31 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:56:31 I'd be absolutely mortified if they moved away from me.

Tony 0:56:34 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:56:35 I want them to go up the road, get a job up the road.

Tony 0:56:39 Yeah. So they're around here all the time. Yeah. That's right. Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:56:41 Cause I'm selfish.

Tony 0:56:42 Yeah. You're not selfish. You're just, it's not about being selfish, about being realistic. You don't want, you know, if you want 'em around you, you don't want 'em to move other side of the world.

Natalie Cassidy 0:56:50 I know, but a lot of people's contentment and happiness comes from travelling and, yeah, you know, yeah. Seeing the world and meeting people. I don't get it.

Tony 0:56:57 But I think that's slightly different, isn't it? You know, you can have a period of contentment and happiness.

Natalie Cassidy 0:57:02 Yeah.

Tony 0:57:03 So, you know, you, you might, there'll be a period in your life where you've got no worries, you've got no financial issues. Mm-hmm. And you can do what you want to do for a period in your life. I completely, that's an absolute, that happens with most people. God willing. What I'm saying is, is to be happy and content for the, your life.

Natalie Cassidy 0:57:23 Yeah. It's something very, very difficult to achieve. Yeah.

Tony 0:57:29 I, I'm sorry. I'm in a bit of a, I'm on a bit of a realism trip today.

Natalie Cassidy 0:57:34 I don't think it's bad. And I think what you said earlier, hit a bit of a nerve because I think I'm extremely fortunate.

Tony 0:57:43 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:57:43 Because I sort of do what I do. What I want to do, I do. I live where I wanna live.

Tony 0:57:49 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:57:50 And I feel very content.

Tony 0:57:51 Well, then.

Natalie Cassidy 0:57:53 So I, I think, like you say, that is, it's extremely rare. That's marvellous. But I also, I also know how lucky I am. I don't take that for granted.

Tony 0:58:02 No, I know. I know. I know.

Natalie Cassidy 0:58:03 I don't take it for granted. And I still have worries or I still have, bits that you've gotta go through and, you know, you have to, you know, there's all things that we go through. But most of the time, I do feel quite content.

Tony 0:58:17 That's good.

Natalie Cassidy 0:58:19 Not bad, is it?

Tony 0:58:20 No, no, it's really good.

Natalie Cassidy 0:58:21 And I think I've, the other thing is, when I say that, you do have to remember we have been through a lot. We haven't got Mum and Dad anymore.

Tony 0:58:28 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:58:29 I've been on the telly since I was 10. I've like been recognised all my life and I see it as a positive. But when I talk to people, they go, I know, but you have had a bit of a weird life, haven't you? Because you've always been recognised and you don't really know what it's like not to be. And you've always been in the papers and people talking about you and you lost your mum young. But I don't, again, my glass is half full most of the time. I don't really think of those things as bad things. I think, well, they're just things that—

Tony 0:58:56 They're just byproducts of what you do, aren't they?

Natalie Cassidy 0:58:58 Yeah. Hi Nat, it's Emma from Marsh Gibbon. Just seen your shout out about Parenting with Tony Talks. She's calling you Tiny Talks now.

Tony 0:59:07 Oh, that's good.

Natalie Cassidy 0:59:07 So that is your new name. My new name. Tony Talks. Tony Talk. It's Mr. Talks. Tony. I find it so hard. Why the Sean Connery? I don't know.

Tony 0:59:16 You went all Sean Connery. Tony Talk.

Natalie Cassidy 0:59:18 I don't know. Sounds a bit New Yorky.

Tony 0:59:21 You reckon? It does, doesn't it? Bit, um, mafioso.

Natalie Cassidy 0:59:24 Yeah.

Tony 0:59:24 Bit Goodfellas.

Natalie Cassidy 0:59:26 Hey, Tony.

Tony 0:59:26 Yeah, a bit Soprano. Hey, Tony, what you doing? I like it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:59:30 I'm talking.

Tony 0:59:31 Yeah. So if there's any film producer people out there need someone for a bit of a role in a bit of a film, you know, the building game's a bit slow at the moment. So that's, that's pants. Pants.

Natalie Cassidy 0:59:44 And films.

Tony 0:59:44 Yeah. I'd love to, I'd love to work with Craig Fairbrass. He's a hero of mine. Do you know Craig?

Natalie Cassidy 0:59:50 Yes.

Tony 0:59:51 And?

Natalie Cassidy 0:59:54 No comment. Okay. He was in EastEnders for ages, wasn't he?

Tony 1:00:00 I don't know, do I? I don't watch it.

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:02 He played Dan, who ended up being—

Tony 1:00:08 Dan, Dan the Dustbin Man.

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:10 He was Carol's boyfriend.

Tony 1:00:13 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:13 But he ended up having an affair with Bianca.

Tony 1:00:16 Nice. Quality.

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:19 But no, Craig was a nice bloke. Why is he a hero of yours?

Tony 1:00:24 Dunno. Just like he, he like does them, you know, foot soldier films.

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:28 Oh, does he? Oh, I don't know what he does. Like his character. Like, right.

Tony 1:00:31 I like all the gangstery stuff. I know a few of them, dunno, whatever. So it's, it's not real life, but, but you know, yeah, sort of. And I, I dunno, I just think it'd be a nice geezer.

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:41 Fair do's.

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:42 I find it so hard, said Emma. I loved everyone else's babies and kids so much. I thought I must be maternal. I am, And I have 2 boys, 4 and 6, but by golly, it's hard. Turns out I'm not that patient.

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:58 I'm shouty, and it's impossible to parent gently when the kids aren't gentle. However, once they're in bed, I promise myself I'll try harder the next day. I'll shout less and be more present. That's until they wake up, have school, I have work, and we start all over again. I think all parents are just trying their best.

Natalie Cassidy 1:01:16 Mm-hmm. Loving the pod and your caring documentary. So insightful. Lots of love. So thank you, Emma.

Natalie Cassidy 1:01:22 And again, you're just being honest. I've had times where I have screamed so loud at the children and they go to bed and you think, I can't believe that I've screamed like that at my own child. Mm-hmm. But you don't mean it. And there is a situation.

Natalie Cassidy 1:01:39 And also, you know when to stop that. And it's only a, you know, a millisecond of time in which you raise your voice to a level. I feel there's only— it's not for long where I've been at a certain level where I know, hang on a minute, I've gotta pull this out of order. You can't do that. You can't scream like that at your child for that long.

Natalie Cassidy 1:02:01 But yeah, it's just hard. We all get ourselves into a tease and we're passionate and we care and we love 'em. And don't beat yourself up, Emma.

Tony 1:02:08 I think that's the thing as well, is that If you're an emo— I'm quite an emotional person. Me too. Which, some men are just not. So that's good in some ways, but it's bad in others. 'Cause you can be over-emotional and you can not see, you know, you cannot be relevant or you can forget what you're supposed to be doing because your emotion takes over. But, you know, I know blokes who went over at the school And they were just like wet weekends. I mean, honestly, they, they— it must have been for them, their wives, it must have been like they were parenting on their own.

Natalie Cassidy 1:02:44 Yeah.

Tony 1:02:45 Because the husband was just— he'd go to work and come home and then build his Lego models or go play golf or— and literally just, he'd just be there to say hello and goodbye and go on holiday with them. And like, literally, they just got— never got involved, which again is, is an odd one. But it happens. But I'd also like to say, given my sort of last 20-plus years' experience, I have no idea how people bring kids up on their own.

Natalie Cassidy 1:03:15 No.

Tony 1:03:15 I just have no idea. No words I can say, no words that if someone brings children up on their own and they come out okay at the end of it, there are no words I can describe to say how difficult and amazing that is because it's hard enough with 2 of you working together, pulling as a team.

Natalie Cassidy 1:03:38 Yep.

Tony 1:03:38 To be on your own and you're trying to do that and you're trying to work and you're trying to run a house and you're trying to, I, I just, I just wouldn't be able to do it. It's absolutely, I, I just, yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 1:03:49 Well, we had a message here from a lady called Emma. No, I'm not the parent I thought I would be, but I didn't think I'd end up being the mum and the dad. Yeah. Single parenting is hard.

Tony 1:03:58 Oh, don't.

Natalie Cassidy 1:03:59 Being a parent is much harder than I thought. And the why question kills me every time.

Tony 1:04:04 Yeah. Mm-hmm. Because I said so. That's the answer to that one. Yeah. I'm afraid.

Natalie Cassidy 1:04:09 Yeah. Goodness me. We're an hour and 6 minutes in. Can you believe that?

Tony 1:04:16 We've not scratched the surface, have we?

Natalie Cassidy 1:04:17 Well, we're gonna carry this on. We're gonna carry on. Any more questions for me and Tony regarding parenting, what we've said tonight? 07788 20 19 19. We'll carry this on in the, you know, week and a half or so, um, and also have our usual funny catch-up. But I think it's brilliant having a chat about parenting, and people were also really excited to talk to you because again, it's a man's perspective, it's a father's perspective, and I think it's really lovely. Uh, different— we're at different ages, and, um, I just think it's really interesting. So thank you.

Tony 1:04:49 That's all right, pleasure. Thank you. Sorry if I've been a bit sort of overly, not aggressive, but I am quite passionate about certain things. And if that's come out tonight, then maybe that's good, but might not be everyone's cup of tea, but that's how I feel about certain stuff.

Natalie Cassidy 1:05:06 Well, this podcast is made in a real environment and we're real people, and I think people know that by now. And we're very happy to hear people that agree and people that disagree.

Tony 1:05:15 Absolutely. 'Cause that's what it's about.

Natalie Cassidy 1:05:17 That's right.

Tony 1:05:18 So there we go. Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 1:05:19 Remember the bonus episode Wednesday, all about caring, which is gonna be fantastic. We got the, uh, girls back on Thursday, Nat's nieces, so that'll be a bundle of, uh, fun. And I hope you enjoy the rest of your week. Thank you. 07788 20 19 19. Follow, subscribe, and, uh, thank you as ever for listening. Tone, have a great rest of the week.

Tony 1:05:40 Will do. And you.

Natalie Cassidy 1:05:41 See you later. See ya. Love you.

Tony 1:05:42 And you.

Natalie Cassidy 1:05:42 Bye.