EP280: Reflecting on Grief #4

Natalie Cassidy 0:02:27 Hello and welcome to Life with Nat. This is a very special episode, a grief episode with Auntie Lynne that we like to do sort of every quarter, sort of a few times a year, isn't it, Lynne?

Lynne 0:02:39 Yeah. It's just nice to do one pre-Christmas, isn't it?

Natalie Cassidy 0:02:42 It is. And like you said, not too close to Christmas. Mm-hmm. But it's a time where—

Lynne 0:02:47 Oh, you can't help but reflect on people that should be here that aren't here. Mm-hmm. And pets that should be here that aren't here. And—

Natalie Cassidy 0:02:55 Definitely.

Lynne 0:02:56 Just, Again, Christmas just heightens, doesn't it? Difficult times as well as happy times. So it's nice to touch base. And the madness of it is that you literally put something out a few hours ago and we've been flooded with voice notes and text messages.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:12 It's absolutely incredible. And actually, I think we should get on with them. Yeah. 'Cause there's so many.

Lynne 0:03:17 Yeah, let's try and—

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:18 So let's try and give everyone a chance.

Lynne 0:03:21 An opportunity, yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:22 So the first message I wanted to read was from Jarlath, one of our listeners. And she sent this a few weeks ago. And she said, morning, Nat. Just listening to you and Auntie Lynne's latest podcast. Would it be possible to do a grief episode on here, please? As I've just lost my first sibling, twin brother, 4 weeks ago tomorrow. I'm feeling numb and can't get a grip on it. I'll see you in Tring. So that was from Jarlough, and that was a few weeks ago. So Jarlough, so sorry to hear that. It must be—

Lynne 0:03:49 To lose a twin.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:50 Yeah, no, it must be unbelievably painful.

Lynne 0:03:54 Oh, they, They're so con— I mean, I don't know what age they are, but they're obviously, twins are very connected, aren't they? Very in sync with each other.

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:04 Yeah.

Lynne 0:04:05 And it must feel like you're losing half of you. That must be very difficult. Yeah, obviously we don't know the age. And yeah, I'm sorry that I'm not gonna get to meet you in Tring because I'm away when that show comes out. Oh yeah. But obviously you'll be there.

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:19 Absolutely.

Lynne 0:04:20 Quite unusual. I've never heard that name. It's a lovely name, isn't it? I've never heard it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:23 Jarlath.

Lynne 0:04:24 Jarlath? Where's that?

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:26 Not sure. Let us know, Jarla. Yeah, because it is lovely.

Lynne 0:04:28 I've never heard it ever.

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:30 It is, it's lovely. Hi Natalie, happy Sunday.

Speaker G 0:04:33 It's been a while since I've been in touch, but I've just seen your message there, and I lost my pug that I had for 14 years on Monday. We had to let him go to sleep, we had to say goodbye, and I have been distraught all week. I've been off I think I've had a bit of COVID as well, but I've been off all week because I have been absolutely heartbroken. I feel like I've lost a human. And to add to it, my mum passed away 11 years ago, and she was the one that got me my little dog. So it's like a bit of her has died again, if that makes sense.

Lynne 0:05:17 Mm-hmm.

Speaker G 0:05:19 But the outpouring of love and happiness that I've got from my friends has been overwhelming. Flowers, messages, tea bags, biscuits. So I think it's important to say that pet grief is actually just as bad as, as losing a human. Um. Yeah. I just wanted to, to message you that because it's a bit of catharsis for me as well. I hope you're having a lovely Sunday.

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:51 Well, bless your heart. And of course, I don't think there should be any need to— you've said this before. There's sort of an embarrassment behind grieving for a pet.

Lynne 0:06:03 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:06:03 That pet is part of your family, has lived with you for 11 years, Clare. But it's—

Lynne 0:06:08 what was it, Clare? It's amazing how many people If you have, and I'm that, I was that person, having never had pets, I didn't get it. I've never always, you know, I love animals. I've never not loved animals. But until you have your own pet, like Betsy's 14 and a half, she's gonna be 15 next year. She's still very sprightly. Mm-hmm. People think she's a puppy when I walk her. I have anxiety thinking about what's ahead because, you know, she's on borrowed time. So I totally empathise with Clare and I I totally understand where she's coming from. But how wonderful that your friends recognise this, whether they do or don't have pets themselves.

Natalie Cassidy 0:06:51 Yeah.

Lynne 0:06:52 Natalie, no, you don't even know what it's like.

Natalie Cassidy 0:06:54 No.

Lynne 0:06:55 You don't know. No. Because until you have a dog, I think dogs probably, and cats.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:02 Yes.

Lynne 0:07:02 Whatever the pet, but a dog is such an integral part of the family. Yes.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:07 No, I do agree with you, yeah.

Lynne 0:07:09 Until you, I never thought I would be this person. I've said this before. And I always, I've said, when we got Betsy, Elia's first words were, she fell in love with her instantly. Well, she's the reason we got her, her and Maria. And Elia's first words were, what are we gonna do when she dies? I said, we've only just got her. She's a puppy. Because that instant love that you found there, and they're defenceless. They can't tell you how they feel. Well, they can tell you in their own way.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:41 No, but they're just joyous. As soon as you walk through the door, they're there, they're welcoming to you.

Lynne 0:07:45 What they give you in terms of that feeling of love and for your mental health even, just a little, it's unconditional, isn't it? They don't—

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:56 I toy always with the idea.

Lynne 0:07:58 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:58 And the reason is because of the loss.

Lynne 0:08:01 Yes. It's another heartache. It's a big, big reason for me. It's another heartache.

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:04 Another heartache that I don't really want.

Lynne 0:08:06 I'm gonna be devastated. You lot better be ready for it. 'Cause I know, I know, and I feel embarrassed that I'm gonna be that way. No. And then I'm already preparing myself 'cause I say, right, you've been lucky, you've had her already 14 and a half years, so be grateful. But it's gonna be—

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:24 But again, the longer you have something, we say this about the death of a parent at 94, people go, oh, well, they lived to a good age. It's all rubbish. It's more memories, more love, more years.

Lynne 0:08:36 And Clare's connection with her dog, her mum, You know, it's like a double loss. Yeah. So we— I get it, Clare. And just be thankful that you've got such lovely friends.

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:48 And take it easy. There's a lot of COVID flying about, as you said, or flu or whatever it is. Yes. We can bandy about whatever, but Lynne, how many times have we spoke this week? I've not felt great.

Lynne 0:08:57 Everyone's ill, aren't they?

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:59 Everyone's a bit ropey, not feeling themselves.

Lynne 0:09:01 And you're noticing people walking around with masks. So COVID is definitely floating around, obviously a different strain of it. And I'm sure it's not anywhere near as dangerous as the one that we all know. But yeah. We just be careful. You feel poorly. But, and also like Claire's saying, I don't know if she, did she say she's not been, she's been off work or?

Natalie Cassidy 0:09:19 Yeah, she's been off work, yeah.

Lynne 0:09:21 It's been, an employer has to understand.

Natalie Cassidy 0:09:23 No, it's a bereavement.

Lynne 0:09:25 I know, but I wonder if employers will really get that.

Natalie Cassidy 0:09:28 I think if you've got a good one, again, a few days. It's a lot, it's a lot to take on board.

Lynne 0:09:35 I think my boss will get it 'cause he's got 2 dogs now, so. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, it's awful, it's horrible, it's a loss. It's a loss. Grief is one of the weirdest emotions that anyone will ever, ever experience. And every grief is different. Every loss is different.

Natalie Cassidy 0:09:56 The way you handle it, every person.

Lynne 0:09:59 The way you deal with it is different. I've experienced an emotion on Friday that I haven't experienced for a good while. And it has— Kind of, it's a trigger now. It's triggered me a little bit. So most ironic that we're doing this pod today because of certain news we received on Friday, which we cannot share at this moment in time. And it just, it's the first time in a very long time that I felt that feeling of, I wish I could just talk to my mum or your mum.

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:34 Mm-hmm.

Lynne 0:10:34 Obviously my mother-in-law. I just wish I could just share what I'm feeling at the moment with these 2 women that were, yeah, my mums. You know, there to look out for me, someone to share an emotion I'm feeling.

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:52 Well, I'm here to look out for you as well.

Lynne 0:10:54 No, I know.

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:55 It's not the same. We can look out for each other.

Lynne 0:10:57 But you know that thing where it's obviously, it's all very, it's all positive news, don't get me wrong. But you know, for me as a, Yeah, for the role I'm— I'm sorry, I'm talking in riddles because I can't share what I know.

Lynne 0:11:10 But ultimately for me, there's lots of other concerns I have with the news I've received. And it just would be— it would've been lovely to speak to people that were my mum. Yes. To be able to say, look, it's all good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lynne 0:11:23 Look after you. Yeah, yeah. And it's interesting, isn't it? There's that trigger sometimes. And I haven't felt this in ages.

Lynne 0:11:29 No. 'Cause I'm the matriarch, aren't I? I'm the one that— looks out for everyone and gives advice and blah, but sometimes you just, yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:11:37 Doesn't matter how old you are, sometimes you need it.

Lynne 0:11:39 Absolutely, absolutely.

Natalie Cassidy 0:11:41 Afternoon, my lovely. Dealing with grief. Best advice, talk about the person and the memories you have. Cry and laugh about the things you've done and the things you miss and love about that person. Make a scrapbook or a frame to have for those hard days.

Natalie Cassidy 0:11:57 It's good to cry it and to feel all the emotions come flooding back. It'll be 5 years in February since we lost Nan, and some days it feels like only yesterday. I cannot wait to listen. Have a lovely Sunday. And that's from Elaine.

Natalie Cassidy 0:12:11 Oh, that's nice, Elaine. So again, sometimes it is lovely to have a little scrapbook or a few pictures, an album. I have loads of pictures dotted about of my dad. I suppose mostly from someone made like a personalised candle with our faces on. I mean, it is so cringe, so not me.

Natalie Cassidy 0:12:29 But I find, isn't it funny, when you lose someone, all these tacky little bits that you used to moan about actually mean quite a lot. Be it a little gem or an angel wing or—

Lynne 0:12:38 Whatever, whatever brings you a little bit of comfort. I've got that, I've got that photo frame that Elia made at school with a photograph of your mum holding Elia when she was—

Natalie Cassidy 0:12:51 The rectangular one with the wood.

Lynne 0:12:53 Yeah, when she was christened. Yeah, so Elia made this and framed that photograph, cut it out for your mum, and it's gone, it's come, but it's ended up at mine. go back to Elia's house. But again, something like that, I mean, it's all been, you know, been made by Elia. So that's a lovely, you know, hand-painted by her as a little girl. No, I know it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:13:11 I know exactly what it is.

Lynne 0:13:12 And something as little as that then becomes so special. So again, people have to do whatever, you know, the talking about keeping that person alive. Some people struggle with that.

Natalie Cassidy 0:13:25 Yeah, they do.

Lynne 0:13:26 Some people struggle with constantly mentioning that, you know, someone who's not been— like, it was your mum's birthday on Friday, we've all spoken about it, but like your brother would, yeah, when I mentioned it, it was all very, oh, okay, shall I go and cut the grass?

Natalie Cassidy 0:13:41 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lynne 0:13:42 You know, they just get a bit awkward, but maybe because it hurts them too much.

Natalie Cassidy 0:13:46 Yeah, absolutely.

Lynne 0:13:48 So by burying that thought or just keeping it—

Natalie Cassidy 0:13:51 And I think some days you can talk about it and some other days you can't.

Lynne 0:13:54 Of course. So there's no right or wrong. No, absolutely, like we've always said.

Natalie Cassidy 0:13:58 Just a quick message for you and your Grief Pod. When my nan passed away, my daughter was about 5. I told her it was fine to be sad and upset, and she looked me square in the eye and said, I'm not sad. It's a good thing. It means that Nanny is no longer poorly or in pain anymore. Yeah. Then at the wake, my daughter said, this should be called Nanny's life party.

Lynne 0:14:19 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:14:20 And I'm going to wear my bright pink sparkling dress because Nanny loved it. This really helped me through what was an extremely hard time. Love the pod and all the family, from Mandy.

Lynne 0:14:31 Oh, see, children. See how lovely is that? Children, see how children see things in such a different light and in a, that's a lovely little, what an amazing thing for a little girl to— That's 5 years old. Yeah, absolutely. Can you imagine like Ruth saying something like that? It is, it's incredible. But isn't it interesting how many, obviously the nan and grandchild relationship.

Natalie Cassidy 0:14:52 Yes.

Lynne 0:14:52 It's such a strong rela— 'cause how many messages I know it's probably because also nans should die before your mum.

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:00 Yeah.

Lynne 0:15:01 But isn't it interesting how many messages—

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:03 Grandparents.

Lynne 0:15:03 About grandparents, that bond, you know, the loss that a grandchild feels losing them.

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:10 Oh, because they have years of memories.

Lynne 0:15:13 'Cause again, I never had that.

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:14 Well, I haven't.

Lynne 0:15:15 And my—

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:15 I mean, Nanny Liz and Nanny Di I had, but you know, only until the age of 9 or whatever it was. So I remember that, they are very, very important memories to me. Yeah. Sitting on the end of Nanny Lizzy's bed with The Vicar of Dibley on. Yeah. Sitting with that jug with the flowers, taking up her Guinness. I remember the room and my memory's not great, so they are absolutely ingrained. Strong memories. Strong, strong memories of living with my nan.

Lynne 0:15:42 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:43 And going up to Nanny Doll's.

Lynne 0:15:44 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:45 And the smell of her ginger ale and whiskey or cards and all her papers or her knitting or, you know. So for someone to have that for an extra 25 years or 30 years, I can't imagine the pain.

Lynne 0:15:58 Yeah, it's sad, innit? And interesting that the little girl said that, you know, at least Nanny's not in pain anymore.

Natalie Cassidy 0:16:05 What a wise thing.

Lynne 0:16:07 So wise. I was talking to a colleague of mine. Why was we having this conversation? Don't know if it was to do with Jester Ranson. I dunno why we were having this conversation.

Lynne 0:16:18 Oh, I know. It was about someone we know that's going through— she's very young and she's got a brain tumour. And yeah, it's all very sad and tragic. And we were sort of weighing up, what would you want? Quality of life, quantity of life?

Lynne 0:16:32 And he asked me the question. He's way younger than me. And I said, is this really bad if I say I just would wanna be here as long as I can be here? And I said, is that selfish? He said, no.

Lynne 0:16:44 He said, actually— and the way he viewed it, it's interesting. The way he viewed it, he said, no, not at all. He said, you're basically saying even if you were in pain or not, didn't have the quality of life you should have, you'd still wanna be here to see everyone, to still try and look after everyone, even though you are in ill health. He sort of turned it on its head.

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:07 Yeah, no, I get it. I get it.

Lynne 0:17:09 Rather than he said, you saying, yeah, if I'm in pain, I haven't got quality of life, I want out. Yeah. But obviously we're saying this at a time when I'm not in pain or— No, of course. You know? But yeah, he turned it on its head and I thought, that's a really interesting way of looking at it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:22 It really is.

Lynne 0:17:24 Yeah. But for me, yeah, I just feel like I'm gonna stick around for as long as I can.

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:29 You need to.

Lynne 0:17:31 Oh gosh.

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:32 Hey Nat and Auntie Linny, I wanted to send a message about grief. It's so hard, isn't it? We lost our dad at the age of 46 years when we were all in our 20s. It'll be 25 years since he passed in February, and I think I feel I miss him more as the years pass. Myself, my 3 sisters, and my mum are going to Disneyland Paris in February on the anniversary of his passing. This way we can be together at a place he loved that luckily we have special memories of him from. His death wasn't expected. He went to work and was attacked and died as a result.

Lynne 0:18:04 Oh.

Natalie Cassidy 0:18:04 So we have grief and so many other feelings associated. Oh dear. My only advice is to never apologise for being sad, for not being present, and to just be kind to yourself. Sometimes it can just come and slap you in the face, even years later, and that's okay. Hold on to the memories and share the stories. Big hugs to anyone going through this and to you too. And that's from Melissa.

Lynne 0:18:28 Oh, Melissa. God, that sounds quite fraught, doesn't it? It really does. And he was so young. So young. But look, the strength she's taken to write out, it is, you know, these are real tragedies, aren't they? Yes. And losing someone suddenly, it's like losing someone who's just gone off to work that morning. and they don't come back. That's a lot to deal with, isn't it? It is a lot to deal with.

Natalie Cassidy 0:18:53 A lot to deal with. And I have a message here from lovely James, a listener, that I'd like to play you now.

Speaker H 0:19:00 Hi, Nat. Hi, Auntie Lynnie. I've just seen your message, Nat, on Instagram in regards to your Grief Pod, and I thought I'd voice note in to say that I lost my mum in 1988. It was just before my 8th birthday. She was killed in a road traffic accident.

Speaker H 0:19:20 She was knocked off her bike in the road. My brother also, he was about 5 at the time.

Speaker H 0:19:28 And for me personally, I don't think I've ever dealt with that properly. I don't think I've ever grieved properly. I find it very difficult to talk about. I can become quite emotional, upset. And I think a part of that is because In the '80s, I don't think there was the same sort of help as there would be today for a child that would have lost a parent at such a young age.

Speaker H 0:19:50 Neither myself or my brother, we never had any counselling, any sort of therapy, or, you know, someone to talk to. Uh, we never had that. And my dad never sat us down and spoke to us. In fact, I would say that he had a nervous breakdown in front of me and my brother at that young age.

Lynne 0:20:08 Oh, James.

Speaker H 0:20:08 He would get angry and, and things like that. So yeah, I don't think I've ever dealt with it properly. Obviously it gets easier, but yeah, I don't think I've ever dealt with it properly. And I think that's part of the reason that this wasn't the same amount of help in the '80s as what there is nowadays. Well, I'm 1 minute 36 seconds into the message, so I'm gonna go now. Um, it's a great pod as always, and, uh, You and Auntie Lynnie enjoy your week. Bye.

Lynne 0:20:39 Thank you, James. How old was James? Did he say? He was 8. He was 8 and his brother was 5. James, I can relate to everything you said, every single word that— other than obviously your, your mum's died in a tragic circumstance.

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:56 Well, no, absolutely. Yeah.

Lynne 0:20:57 But we had— not that we had time to acclimatise, but she was ill for a while. It wasn't that she'd left home and You're absolutely right. My mum died in 1979. Just had her anniversary a few days ago. You're absolutely right. There wasn't the help for young people, even at school. My brothers, my younger brothers were still at school. There was no help. Which I guess, I mean, 5 years of age. It was probably harder for you, James, at 8.

Natalie Cassidy 0:21:26 Yeah.

Lynne 0:21:26 Because you just knew that much more. And then the support of your dad. We went through something very similar. I'm not saying my dad had a breakdown, but he definitely, year one, struggled immensely. So again, I get what your father went through. I hope you are a close-knit family, and I hope you and your brother are close, 'cause that's what it did for us. It made us even closer. Made you closer. Yeah, 'cause we just looked out for each other.

Natalie Cassidy 0:21:52 Yeah, I hope that James— and do you know what I love? James, he often—

Lynne 0:21:57 Voice notes.

Natalie Cassidy 0:21:58 Voice notes and stuff. You know when you get something like this and you just think, Everyone, you don't know people's stories.

Lynne 0:22:04 No, this is it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:22:06 You know, you can laugh and you can joke and you have opinions about whatever the fuck it is. Yeah. And then suddenly he sends a message like that.

Lynne 0:22:14 Messages say, yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:22:15 And what you've been through.

Lynne 0:22:16 But James, so much admiration to you for sending that message. It's so nice to hear from men as well. It is. Because it did, we do tend to have majority women that phone and voice note. And I know women are more open and we tend to wear our heart on our sleeves, don't we? But— Oh, I agree. It's so important for men to reach out as well. And I just, honestly, I could cry for you, James, 'cause it's so— it was at those ages, you know, you must have felt that you were looking after your dad and looking after your brother.

Natalie Cassidy 0:22:49 Yet you were a little tiny boy. And you were a little boy yourself.

Lynne 0:22:51 And you'd not— you're not given the opportunity to grieve. Much how I felt being the only girl.

Natalie Cassidy 0:22:56 Yeah.

Lynne 0:22:57 You know, the only other woman in my life was my mum and she died. And then I was left with 3 brothers and a dad who fell apart year 1. He pulled it together and he was amazing thereafter. But that year was horrific. Yeah. So, and I was older than you. I was just turned 16. So. It must have been so tough for you. I do hope there was women around you that supported you and—

Natalie Cassidy 0:23:20 What I think's brilliant is how brave, like you said, so brave, James, to send that in. And you are kind of saying, I've never really grieved. Grieved, yeah.

Lynne 0:23:29 So maybe, Maybe you—

Natalie Cassidy 0:23:31 Maybe this message is a little start for you. Maybe you need to talk to someone. Yeah. Just get it all out.

Lynne 0:23:37 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:23:37 And this might help you.

Lynne 0:23:39 Have your counselling now. Yeah. It doesn't matter that it's so many years down the line.

Natalie Cassidy 0:23:44 Not at all.

Lynne 0:23:45 You know, it's damaging to not, to not grieve and not get it out and not speak to someone. And maybe a counsellor, someone who you don't know, you can be completely frank and honest with them.

Natalie Cassidy 0:23:57 Yeah.

Lynne 0:23:59 I feel, yeah, I've always said it, for me, my saving grace was my job. Because maybe that's why I love working so much. Yeah. 'Cause I think it's been so healing for me. But I hadn't, I'd just started work. And I think that escapism, going to somewhere where there was young people.

Natalie Cassidy 0:24:15 Having a purpose.

Lynne 0:24:16 Natalie, having a job, having a purpose, having a laugh, having a social life. Yeah, it frightens me to think if I hadn't started work, What would have happened?

Natalie Cassidy 0:24:26 What could have happened.

Lynne 0:24:27 So, but look, James, you've survived it and you're here to tell this tale and—

Natalie Cassidy 0:24:32 And you're a great guy. So thank you for that and keep going. And yeah, maybe, maybe visit the, the prospect of having a little think about grieving a little bit more.

Speaker J 0:27:38 Hi, Nat. It's Amanda from Norfolk here. I've listened from day one. Absolutely love your podcast. It's my favourite out of all the ones I listen to. Yay! Um, often messaged your nieces, but this is the first time I've left a voice message, so I'm feeling brave. I mean, to talk about my dad, really. I lost him on the 5th of January, 2019. It was rather sudden. He got sick on New Year's Eve and we had to turn his life support machine off on the 5th of January.

Lynne 0:28:09 As you can imagine, hardest day of all of our lives.

Speaker J 0:28:12 Miss him every single day.

Lynne 0:28:14 I did have a bit of a, a bit of a breakdown sort of 6 months after, left my job. Um, and just couldn't cope with anything too, too stressful. I was an NHS secretary, so quite stressful. Um, left and went to work in a little doggy work—

Speaker J 0:28:33 doggy shop, doggy food shop, um, just to rest my head really. Um, now I'm the director of that company, but there we go.

Lynne 0:28:42 Amazing.

Speaker J 0:28:43 Worked my way up and, and that's that. But that's by the by. I'm sat out in the garden. It's beautiful and sunny. And I'm wearing my dad's jumper.

Lynne 0:28:51 Oh.

Speaker J 0:28:52 I'm using my dad's gardening tools to do all my gardening. And I'm surrounded by plants that he gave me throughout his life. And I'm even sat on his garden bench as well, actually. So as much as I miss him every single day, I do feel like he's with me all of the time.

Speaker J 0:29:11 Robins are in my garden as we speak, and any white feather that comes down, I feel it's him. With my nanny up there, just saying hi and sending their love. Um, yeah, I still miss him every single day, but do feel his presence every day as well. But just wanted to pass that message on, really. Love you both.

Speaker J 0:29:35 Love you all, actually. And I'm coming to see you with my daughter in November. I came to see you with my husband last Christmas, but, um, My daughter's coming this time and I'm so excited to come along. Sweet. Thank you.

Speaker J 0:29:47 Take care. Bye.

Lynne 0:29:48 You can hear the sadness and the pain in her voice still. It's so raw, even though it's, you know, time's gone by, it's still so raw for her.

Natalie Cassidy 0:29:59 Well, I think, again, it's just so, I find it so amazing that you can put a message out like that for You and I's pod this afternoon.

Natalie Cassidy 0:30:08 And she's just sat in the garden with a little minute to herself. And I think that's sort of the brave part. Because I'm listening to that, I think, yeah, you know, if I'm in the garden, I look up the Evelyn sign and the little angel, or I go into Grandad's in there and check everything's all right. I feel so close to him still. I feel so lucky.

Natalie Cassidy 0:30:34 And I wear my dad's cardigan and all those things. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it doesn't, like, it doesn't get any easier, but it's lovely that you feel that you can share those things.

Lynne 0:30:45 And that must be quite sort of healing as well, knowing that she's left a message, it's been played, and we're now discussing it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:30:53 Yeah.

Lynne 0:30:53 That in itself would, will give you, will give her a little, just a little boost. Yeah, and that's why it's just so important to find ways of sharing what you've been through, even if you don't feel particularly sad about it anymore because you've adjusted and you've learnt to live with it, as that saying goes. But just to be able to voice it to people that you don't really know that well.

Natalie Cassidy 0:31:21 I just think it's the space we create, Lynne. It's not a joke to say that every time I put a message out about our grief pods, it's the most— I get bombarded.

Lynne 0:31:32 Well, to help you understand, everyone, I— this wasn't plan today, was it, for me to come and do this pod? No. I just happened to be 2 minutes up the road at Elia's doing her ironing. And Natalie was like, we were talking about getting another pod in. I said, well, I'm up the road, I can do it today. And she was like, but I haven't put anything out. I said, put the grief pod out.

Natalie Cassidy 0:31:51 Yep.

Lynne 0:31:51 And we've just been, within a couple of hours—

Natalie Cassidy 0:31:54 Inundated.

Lynne 0:31:55 Inundated with messages. So that just speaks volumes. But that gives me no end of joy.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:01 Than me, 'cause it's just something—

Lynne 0:32:03 I'm just sorry we can't read and play them all.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:05 Well, I'm gonna get on with it. I'm gonna try.

Lynne 0:32:07 Today's pod is definitely gonna be about getting as many of your, yeah, your scenarios out rather than ours, 'cause they've heard about ours.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:16 Hi there. My dad passed away at the end of May.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:18 He suffered from Parkinson's and my mum was his carer, and we all decided last Christmas to have a family get-together with everyone as we thought it may be his last. And he had started to deteriorate quickly and couldn't walk. It was the best thing we did. He went into care to give my mum a rest and contracted diarrhoea and sickness and inhaled sick and died within 2 days. Oh gosh.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:41 We were all with him when he took his last breath. It was so hard, and I still see him struggling for breath now. I miss him so much. Dealing with grief daily. Thanks for all you do, ladies.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:53 I've loved the previous grief Podcasts. Love, Tracy from Leeds.

Lynne 0:32:57 Oh, Tracy, thank you for taking the time to message us. Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:01 Thank you so much.

Lynne 0:33:02 And again, we send, we send you a big hug.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:05 Big squeeze.

Lynne 0:33:06 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:07 Onward and upward.

Lynne 0:33:08 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:09 And also, it's all right not to go onward and upward.

Lynne 0:33:12 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:12 It's all right to have a day where you don't feel okay.

Lynne 0:33:14 Absolutely.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:15 Do you know that message we just had actually, when the lady said she worked in the doggy shop?

Lynne 0:33:21 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:23 And how she just wanted a bit of a simple life.

Lynne 0:33:25 Fantastic.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:26 But I feel like that.

Lynne 0:33:28 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:28 I wonder if it's—

Lynne 0:33:30 What, feel like you wanna just go and work in Marks and Spencer's? Just as well. Like you say.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:34 Just, yeah. Don't want a lot in my head.

Lynne 0:33:36 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:36 I wonder if that is down to grief.

Lynne 0:33:39 I'd say it's a combination of things, isn't it?

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:42 But it's interesting, isn't it? It just sparks a thought. Is it because of everything you've gone through and—

Lynne 0:33:48 Sometimes it's just nice to know that—

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:51 Simple life.

Lynne 0:33:52 Yeah. And something that gives you joy and—

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:54 Just so you haven't gotta think a lot. Yeah.

Lynne 0:33:57 You haven't gotta constantly be planning about the next thing or being stressed about someone complaining about whatever.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:02 Yeah.

Lynne 0:34:03 Or because all you're doing is dealing with dog, what was it?

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:09 Pet food. Pet food.

Lynne 0:34:10 And yeah, it's not, it's happy stuff, isn't it? It's nice stuff. It's joyous stuff.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:14 Simple.

Lynne 0:34:15 Simple. Yeah. Is that good on her though?

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:16 Amazing that she did that. And, Then obviously worked her way up to director. Right, yeah. So as she said, it was by the by, but still amazing. Yeah. But no, that's just—

Lynne 0:34:26 Yeah. Triggered, giving you a little, whoa.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:27 Planted a little seed.

Lynne 0:34:28 There's so many things that can, that can build up over a period of time that one goes through.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:37 But I just don't think we, I don't think we realise the years. Because we just don't know. Absolutely. Of hospitals, appointments, sitting up there, medication, tablets, carers, this, young children. full-time job. When I think about every—

Lynne 0:34:52 Natalie, it only occurred to me a very short while ago. I mean, this is mad when you think about it. 'Cause imagine Eliza at the moment, right? She's doing her GCSEs, right? In my day it was O-levels and GCSEs. It only occurred to me about 9 months ago when I was clearing out a cupboard and found my exam results. And they all said the same thing. Linda's hard work during the year isn't reflected in her exam results. My mum was dying in hospital in North Middlesex. We had to schlep on a bus to go and see her, or a train.

Natalie Cassidy 0:35:29 And you were doing your O Levels?

Lynne 0:35:30 I was doing my O Levels. And it's— the penny has never dropped. It never occurred to me that when I was sitting my exams in that May and June, my mum was in hospital dying. I never made the link.

Natalie Cassidy 0:35:43 And you had no support. No, none of it. The school didn't know that you— now I actually believe now, Correct me, correct me if I'm wrong. I think if that was going on, you could wait. Yeah. You could do your exam. Yeah. I do believe that now.

Lynne 0:35:55 Yeah, they'd go, yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:35:56 Yeah, I would absolutely offer you things. None of that.

Lynne 0:35:58 But I never made the connection.

Natalie Cassidy 0:35:59 Well, you didn't need it anyway. She's brilliant. So it don't matter.

Lynne 0:36:02 Thank you. It's mad, isn't it?

Natalie Cassidy 0:36:06 No, absolutely.

Lynne 0:36:06 Could you imagine now a girl of that, I say Eliza because she's that age.

Natalie Cassidy 0:36:11 No, absolutely.

Lynne 0:36:12 The school would be doing everything within their power You'd hope. Well, I think it would happen. Yeah. Whereas our school probably didn't even know. Yeah. It's crazy stuff.

Natalie Cassidy 0:36:22 It is mad.

Lynne 0:36:23 Crazy stuff.

Natalie Cassidy 0:36:24 It's a bit of a long one, but well worth it.

Speaker K 0:36:26 Hey, Natalie. It's Luke here. I saw your note on grief, and it got me thinking. I'm walking to the station, so excuse my breath and the walking noises. I was gonna say sadly, but I've, I just, you know, my story of life is I've, I have had quite a lot of grief, and When I went to speak to someone about it many moons ago, she kind of helped me turn it on its head.

Speaker K 0:36:49 And it's like, the way I see it, it's like everything is a circle of life, everything. And it's gonna happen to us all. And when she explained it so simply like that, she told me to celebrate the life and the shared life that I had with whoever. So that's how I try and get around it. And another thing I wanted to say, I love dogs more than people, to be honest.

Speaker K 0:37:13 And I miss my dogs more than— Aw. dead family members, to be honest. But, like, I had a 16-year-old little Boston Terrier, Jack Russell dog, Twiggy, who died a year ago. Oh. God, 16.

Speaker K 0:37:26 She had one eye, her back legs collapsed, and we gave in. And instead of—

Speaker H 0:37:30 I was heartbroken for a few days, obviously, like anyone would be. But I just somehow turned it around.

Speaker K 0:37:36 I'm not sure how, to make it a celebration that I was her dad for 16 years. She didn't know anyone, well, me and my partner at the time, single now. Anyway, it's another story.

Lynne 0:37:45 Another point.

Speaker K 0:37:46 Yeah. So I think we have to, because we're not taught it in schools, are we? We're not. Everyone shies away from it. And I think just going back to the dog for a sec, because that changed a lot for me.

Speaker H 0:37:57 She, as I said, she was 16 and I just thought, oh my God, I'm so proud.

Speaker K 0:38:01 I was her dad.

Speaker K 0:38:02 You know, apart from holidays, I was with her for 16 years, fed her for 16 years, picked up her shit for 16 years. And I was her soulmate and she was mine. And of course I'd like her to have lived forever, but she had a wonderful life. And I think, to be honest— I won't keep going on, by the way, I don't want to leave a really long message. I think I have more compassion and empathy and more beautiful grief, if you like, for dogs than I do people.

Speaker K 0:38:30 My mum's dead, my dad's dead, I've got brothers I don't speak to, lost quite a few really close friends through various things over the years. And of course, as a human, we get upset. But I think we've just gotta be more— how can you be positive when someone's just dropped dead? I just think we've gotta celebrate the fact that we had them in our lives, and it was a privilege. Yeah.

Speaker H 0:38:49 I've got some older, sort of not officially adopted, but they're kind of adopted parents who I've known since I was 19, and I'm 55 next month.

Speaker K 0:39:00 And they're getting on. And I keep thinking, Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, what am I going to do? Get on a plane to Australia and never come back when they pass? A friend of mine said to me, spiritual reader actually, I'm into all that, she said, you've just got to be— you've got to pat yourself on the back and go, Luke, you're lucky, mate, you had them for over 35 years, or however long it's going to be, hopefully more, 40, 45.

Speaker K 0:39:20 But I think we've got to take grief by the balls, as it were, and we've got to turn it on its head because like I said, we're not taught about it, and just go Well, they were in my life and they were wonderful, and we need to celebrate that because life is— because life is short. I'm not sure whether that helps you, but that's just my thought on grief. But the last thing I'll say, I do, I do miss my dogs more than any human, including my mum, which I don't know whether I should admit that. It's a tricky relationship, but hey ho, uh, we do our best. Yeah, that's me on grief.

Speaker K 0:39:53 Happy Sunday.

Natalie Cassidy 0:39:53 Thank you, Luke. What a great message.

Lynne 0:39:56 Lovely message.

Natalie Cassidy 0:39:58 Interesting guy. I'd like to get him on.

Lynne 0:39:59 Very interesting.

Natalie Cassidy 0:40:01 Sounds interesting to me.

Lynne 0:40:02 And very honest.

Natalie Cassidy 0:40:03 Yeah, I like it.

Lynne 0:40:04 Very honest.

Natalie Cassidy 0:40:04 Very much so.

Lynne 0:40:05 And love the fact that as a man, he's opened up to saying that, yeah, losing his dogs has been heart-wrenching for him.

Natalie Cassidy 0:40:14 Absolutely. And also, again, if you dig deeper and you did a pod, you don't know the relationships he's had. Exactly.

Lynne 0:40:20 I know a lot of people are gonna listen to this and say, oh, he misses his dog more than his mum. But as you say, you don't know.

Natalie Cassidy 0:40:24 what people have given. It's about what people give you in life.

Lynne 0:40:27 Yeah, being a mum, being a dad, being a brother, being a sister, that's just a title.

Natalie Cassidy 0:40:31 Absolutely.

Lynne 0:40:32 You have to earn that title.

Natalie Cassidy 0:40:33 Absolutely.

Lynne 0:40:34 And unfortunately, not everyone does earn it. And maybe not their fault, because as you've said before, no one's taught to be— no one teaches you how to be a parent.

Natalie Cassidy 0:40:46 No.

Lynne 0:40:46 No one teaches you how to be a sibling.

Natalie Cassidy 0:40:48 No. No, it's so— I mean, look at what I did a couple of weeks ago with our Prime Minister. Yeah. I mean, I spoke to you obviously, but I felt quite emotional with him. No, I really did. Because he'd had his dad's funeral the Friday before. I saw him on a Wednesday.

Lynne 0:41:05 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:41:05 And he said, I had my dad's funeral. And I genuinely, I just wanted to get up and cuddle him. Give him a hug. I just don't care who you are. Yeah. What you're talking about. It doesn't matter who you are. Are you all right? You know.

Lynne 0:41:14 And did he, was he open about As I think as— Can be.

Natalie Cassidy 0:41:19 As they can be. But you could see it in him.

Lynne 0:41:21 The pain.

Natalie Cassidy 0:41:22 And the passion about the dementia that his dad's had and how his mum was caring for him and how his brothers have all got good careers. And I found him very human.

Lynne 0:41:32 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:41:32 Put it that way.

Lynne 0:41:33 Quite relatable.

Natalie Cassidy 0:41:34 Very relatable.

Lynne 0:41:35 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:41:36 So politics aside, I thought, gosh, there is a man who's got the— landed the biggest job in the country.

Lynne 0:41:42 And he's—

Natalie Cassidy 0:41:43 Knowing that his whole family are going through turmoil.

Lynne 0:41:46 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:41:47 Relocating.

Lynne 0:41:48 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:41:49 Manchester to London, family, kids, wife. And then having that on his shoulders.

Lynne 0:41:54 And then going through that.

Natalie Cassidy 0:41:55 It's a lot. Whether you agree with his politics or not. Yeah. And doesn't have to agree with you. Yeah. I know.

Lynne 0:42:04 But it's interesting, isn't it? 'Cause it must be hard for men if they feel they can't open up. and speak about it and, or just voice how they feel.

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:14 Well, I just don't think—

Lynne 0:42:16 It's not healthy. I know some do.

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:18 I'm not saying some, I'm not saying men don't.

Lynne 0:42:20 Many do.

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:20 But we pick the phone up.

Lynne 0:42:22 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:22 We'll go and have a walk or a cup of coffee.

Lynne 0:42:24 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:25 Or voice note for 7 minutes. Yeah. 'Cause you haven't got any other time. I feel like we do that as well.

Lynne 0:42:30 Or cry, just have a cry.

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:31 I just feel like our friendships are, They're like that. I mean, honestly, 07788 201919, for any men listening, you wanna bog me down and say I'm wrong, do. But yeah, I think, I think it's harder.

Lynne 0:42:47 Yeah, we'll happily do. We'll happily have a Grief Pod where majority men are ringing in. Absolutely. Telling us how they're feeling.

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:55 And if you're listening, girls, and you think your partner or brother or son or granddad would need to have a little chat about grief, tell them about this. And we could do a special with all males. And you could get your relative on and say, look, Nat does this thing. I know you don't know it and you don't give a shit, but what about—

Lynne 0:43:15 Just be interesting to see. Yeah. There's, I mean, we've heard it from a couple of guys today.

Natalie Cassidy 0:43:20 Which is so lovely.

Lynne 0:43:21 Just nice to hear it from a man's angle and point of view. Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:43:26 Well, maybe we should get a Tony and David to talk about it first.

Lynne 0:43:29 Good luck. All the best.

Natalie Cassidy 0:46:07 Must read this out from Patreon, our lovely Patreon people who are so wonderful that have joined our community. And I, I bang on about it, and I'm sorry to bang on I know it's a little bit more money, it's another little bill a month, but we're creating such a lovely community over there. Vanessa messaged us on Patreon today. She was trying to do the phone number and it didn't work for some reason, but she said— Oh, Vanessa. I lost my lovely mum last February and my dad in May this year.

Natalie Cassidy 0:46:35 Oh. I am so consumed with grief that it's taken over my life. I don't know how to deal with anything other than the constant sadness. And Vanessa, honestly, I read that. To lose 2 parents—

Lynne 0:46:51 In a short space of time.

Natalie Cassidy 0:46:53 It is, uh—

Lynne 0:46:53 And again, we don't know their ages. No, we don't know their age. It's kind of irrelevant.

Natalie Cassidy 0:46:56 No, I know, but it is. I would've—

Lynne 0:46:58 Vanessa, how they've gone together, they're together. You need to draw a little bit of comfort from that. I know it probably feels harsh on you that they've both left you at the same time.

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:08 Yeah.

Lynne 0:47:08 But they're together. draw some comfort from that. It's a lot to deal with, isn't it?

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:16 And in this pace of life, because, I mean, we were saying this last time, 'cause you're a doer and you get on and all that, I think there is a pressure to, you can be, you can grieve, but then you've gotta carry on with everything else and you've gotta do this and that and cooking and this and that.

Lynne 0:47:33 You're not allowed to crumble, are you? And just lock yourself away.

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:36 You're not allowed to just go, I don't feel strong to do that. Yeah. And I do feel that you should be able to say that. And it's okay to say that.

Lynne 0:47:47 Well, I think it's the people around you that can't, wouldn't be able to deal with it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:50 Yeah.

Lynne 0:47:51 They wouldn't be able to deal with it, especially if you are someone within that, your network. That fold.

Lynne 0:47:56 Yeah. Where you're a doer or you just get on, or you just, you know, get up, go to work, do whatever it is you do with your life. And then all of a sudden they see that person not behaving in that fashion. It's the others that can't deal with it. It's not you.

Lynne 0:48:12 You might need that time to just vegetate, to just curl up on a sofa with a duvet and just cry, or just stare into space, or not wanna respond to phone calls or text messages, or watch your favourite soap, or whatever it is you do normally. Mm-hmm. Or walk the dog, or you just wanna curl up and feel sorry for yourself.

Natalie Cassidy 0:48:37 Yeah.

Lynne 0:48:37 Sometimes you just wanna feel sorry for yourself. A bit of self-pity. Yeah. You might be okay with that. It's the people around you that would be like, no, come on, you need to get a grip, pull yourself together. It's a— there's such a fine line, isn't it, with grief and that emotion. It's an emotion that that no 2 people experience exactly the same form of grief. Even if you might experience the same loss, it could be the same parent at the same time. My grief in comparison to say my brother's grief.

Natalie Cassidy 0:49:19 Yep.

Lynne 0:49:19 Was completely different. Completely different.

Natalie Cassidy 0:49:24 Oh, I'd say the same. Definitely. Yeah.

Lynne 0:49:27 how we dealt with it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:49:28 On both sides. Mm-hmm. Mum, dad, completely different. So yeah, we live in a wonderful, weird world, don't we?

Lynne 0:49:36 But thankfully now, Natalie, there is so much support out there.

Natalie Cassidy 0:49:39 There is more support without doubt. If you want it.

Lynne 0:49:42 If you want it. And if you don't want it, that's okay too.

Natalie Cassidy 0:49:45 But you should feel able, people listening like Vanessa who said, I just don't know what to do. Oh, have a look online. You can phone the Samaritans at any time. Mm-hmm. Just phone 'em up. Free phone call. Talk to a stranger.

Lynne 0:50:00 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:50:00 Have half an hour on the phone. There's no shame in that. There's no, if you don't know who to talk to or people don't understand. But she's spoken to us. Which is so lovely. That's the first step, isn't it?

Lynne 0:50:10 It's a massive step. A massive step. But, and if you feel the need to message again, Vanessa, please do.

Natalie Cassidy 0:50:16 Please do. Always. Hi Nat and Linnie. I think one of the hardest things about grief is the expectations around it, how you should be feeling and what you should be doing. you should be doing.

Lynne 0:50:26 There you go.

Natalie Cassidy 0:50:27 Truth is, it's so random and personal. We all deal with it so differently. There's also the guilt, feeling that you can't smile, laugh, or have fun because you should be sad all the time. I lost my lovely sister-in-law, Tracy, oh God, in January, and I've found that doing the things I've put off for a long time is my way of processing, healing, and celebrating her life. I've got a tattoo. I've joined an art class. I've completed a charity walk, £7,000 raised by our family team. Amazing. Well done. Revamped my wardrobe with bright colours that make me happy. And I'm soon heading off to a trip to Japan.

Lynne 0:51:07 Wow.

Natalie Cassidy 0:51:08 Getting shit done has always been my go-to coping mechanism. Yeah.

Lynne 0:51:12 Incredible.

Natalie Cassidy 0:51:12 And that seems to apply to dealing with grief too.

Lynne 0:51:15 Oh, good on you.

Natalie Cassidy 0:51:16 Thank you so much for doing this wonderful pod. Grief is such a tough thing to talk about. Mm-hmm. And you both help us so much. With love, Gem from Horsham.

Lynne 0:51:25 Oh, thank you, Gem from Horsham.

Natalie Cassidy 0:51:27 Isn't that lovely?

Lynne 0:51:27 But how— what, look how she's— look what she's doing.

Natalie Cassidy 0:51:30 Grabbing it with both hands. Yeah.

Lynne 0:51:31 So losing someone has made her go, right.

Natalie Cassidy 0:51:34 Spurred her on to just do things she wants to do. Yeah.

Lynne 0:51:37 That's incredible. I love that. I love to hear this. And I hope others that are listening to this just take a little bit from that message. Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:51:44 Because, You can turn these things—

Lynne 0:51:46 It's inspirational, Natalie.

Natalie Cassidy 0:51:47 Just turn these things that it's the saddest time ever.

Lynne 0:51:51 But clearly she's glass half full, not glass half empty. And she's like, right, okay, I'm still here, I'm blessed to be here.

Natalie Cassidy 0:51:59 And I'm gonna get on with it.

Lynne 0:52:00 And I'm gonna do it for me and my friend. I'm gonna live my life to the full. And she's filled her wardrobe with bright colours. I love that.

Natalie Cassidy 0:52:09 It's great.

Lynne 0:52:09 Yeah, I love that.

Natalie Cassidy 0:52:10 Lynne, I'm gonna end. This is the last voice note 'cause we are coming to the end, would you believe it or not? It's quite a long one, but it's from our lovely Dawn, who we only saw a couple of weekends ago at the brunch.

Lynne 0:52:21 Oh, right.

Natalie Cassidy 0:52:21 So have a listen to this.

Speaker J 0:52:23 Good afternoon, Natalie. I just see your post on Instagram about the grief episode with Auntie Lynnie. So grief is a funny old thing, isn't it? I lost my dad 2 years ago in August. Really tragic. Um, he had a fall, and me and my husband went down to help him get up. My mum used the phone, which she hasn't done in ages. So we went down— we only live 2 minutes away— went down to help him up. He collapsed in the chair, and on the phone to, um, the ambulance, I had to perform CPR.

Lynne 0:53:02 Oh.

Speaker J 0:53:03 The image I will never get out of my mind, seeing him lay there and me doing that on him, was just awful.

Speaker J 0:53:09 My sister also helped as well. 'cause she lives next door. And yeah, absolutely horrible. He was my mum's main carer, who— she has dementia, so we had to put in plans that day for my mum to have carers come in. It was just awful.

Speaker J 0:53:30 We had to sort of put our grief aside to concentrate on my mum's wellbeing. Which, you know, is hard in itself. She didn't quite understand that he wasn't coming back, and it was just awful. Um, my mum's now in a care home, and even though my mum's still here, we're grieving the loss of our mum that we used to have. We no longer have the conversations we used to have, and she is in a world of her own.

Speaker J 0:54:04 Um, some days are better than others, but it is so hard. Um, she had a visit from my sister today, and she just wants to sleep. I went in yesterday, and she asked to go to bed. I was there 5 minutes. Um, she isn't that far away from us in a care home, but, um, she gets fantastic care.

Speaker J 0:54:28 But the grief of losing my dad And the grief of losing my mum, who we all knew and loved, is just so, so hard. I spoke to social services last week because they got to do a review on my mum, and she put it that my mum isn't my mum anymore, it's a lady with dementia, which she is so right. We go, you know, 2, 3 times a week to see her. But yeah, grief. Finding it hard.

Speaker J 0:55:04 Still find it hard not having my wonderful dad. I've still got voice notes on my phone that I tend to listen to. They're only quick. Um, look back at photos all the time, and I'll go and see his forever garden and make sure that is all tidy, fresh plants. Fresh flowers, which he said he would come back and haunt us if we ever put artificial on him.

Speaker J 0:55:27 So we must make sure that we always put fresh flowers on my dad. But yeah, he's probably up there chuckling away. But yeah, I hope you have a lovely afternoon. And yeah, this is, uh, old Dawnie from Kent.

Natalie Cassidy 0:55:42 Oh, thanks, Dawn. Yeah, I think it's—

Lynne 0:55:47 she makes some interesting points there, doesn't she? They're already grieving the loss of their mum and their mum's still here.

Natalie Cassidy 0:55:54 Well, dementia is, Alzheimer's, there's a thousand different memory illnesses as we know, but it is the cruellest 'cause you're sort of, you're saying goodbye every time you see them. They'll forget another thing and another thing and that's never coming back.

Lynne 0:56:10 It's just heartbreaking, Natalie, going to visit a loved one and they dunno who you are. It's heartbreaking. It's the worst. It's the strangest emotion. You've not really experienced that. You've not had that, have you? No, you didn't.

Natalie Cassidy 0:56:28 No, I've not had that. I have had—

Lynne 0:56:30 Obviously.

Natalie Cassidy 0:56:31 Friends, Barbara Windsor, obviously. Oh yes, of course.

Lynne 0:56:36 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:56:36 I've seen someone just change and not remember certain things, which was weird enough.

Lynne 0:56:42 But having it as a Yeah, imagine going to see your parents. I remember going with my dad. With my dad, it was 'cause of his stroke, but I mean, I turned it into fun.

Natalie Cassidy 0:56:50 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lynne 0:56:51 I did make a joke of it in the end. I used to always go in there and go, Dad, who is it? I'd always ask him 'cause I just wanted him to say my name. And he'd say everyone's name bar mine.

Natalie Cassidy 0:57:00 He probably did it on purpose.

Lynne 0:57:01 And he was a bit of a wind-up merchant. I did think in the end, yeah, he called me, one day he said I was Gina Lollobrigida. He just was like, yeah. And I'd just come away and think, oh, I do hope he knows it's me. Yeah. So I do feel Dawn's pain. And it must, it must be heartbreaking 'cause you're, again, you're grieving. It's a double loss, isn't it?

Natalie Cassidy 0:57:23 Well, her mum and dad were together for 53 years. Wow. And she sent me a picture of her mum and dad.

Lynne 0:57:27 Bless her.

Natalie Cassidy 0:57:27 And he's really laughing in the photo. And she went, he's laughing in the photo because he was pinching my mum's bum at the time.

Lynne 0:57:33 Oh, how funny.

Natalie Cassidy 0:57:33 But just a lovely—

Lynne 0:57:34 Yeah, and how lovely.

Natalie Cassidy 0:57:36 You know, so lovely. But thank you, Dawn.

Lynne 0:57:38 But she, yeah, interesting, the point that she made. that she's made in her message.

Natalie Cassidy 0:57:42 So many, so many. Really brilliant. Right, I'm gonna end with this. Our lovely G, Georgina.

Lynne 0:57:50 Aw.

Natalie Cassidy 0:57:50 She said, hi mate, this is what I read at my sister's funeral.

Lynne 0:57:54 Aw.

Natalie Cassidy 0:57:54 I adapted it from a Facebook post I saw. So this is where I'm going to end. Here we go. Thank you everybody for listening. Thank you as always. I love doing these.

Lynne 0:58:04 Yeah, me too.

Natalie Cassidy 0:58:05 07788 20 20. 1919. Always send in anything to do with grief, 'cause I just chuck it on our little group.

Lynne 0:58:13 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:58:13 And then we've got it for the next one, 'cause we're, we're always gonna do them.

Lynne 0:58:17 And if it makes, if it helps you get through that hour, that day, it doesn't matter that there isn't a grief pod in it. Just put it on. Just put it on and then it help, might, may help you. Just, you've got it out then, haven't you?

Natalie Cassidy 0:58:28 Yeah.

Lynne 0:58:28 Whether it's a voice note or text, please don't be afraid to do that.

Natalie Cassidy 0:58:32 Definitely.

Natalie Cassidy 0:58:36 Glitter. Someone said grief is like glitter. It clings to everything. It hides in corners and is hard to clean. Appears on your fingertips when reaching for something or brushing your hair before bed.

Natalie Cassidy 0:58:49 It settles in places no one else can see. Sometimes it sparkles and sometimes it doesn't. And I think that's true, not because it makes grief prettier, but because it makes it stubborn. Grief doesn't knock politely and leave when you ask. It spills, it stains, and it stays.

Natalie Cassidy 0:59:09 People imagine grief as a clean wound— blood, plaster, all better— but really it's an untidy room that you can't fully clean, a scent that lingers even after all the windows have been opened, a voice that you keep hearing long after the talking Some people lose things they love— books, shoes, voices, future plans— and keep walking as if nothing's happened. Others crumble at the mention of her name. There's no proper timeline for learning how to live with what you miss. Some days you'll do it gracefully, other days you'll choke on it. That's still living.

Natalie Cassidy 0:59:48 And maybe the kindest thing about grief is that it's evidence that someone mattered. That she left fingerprints on your heart so brightly that light still catches on them. That she lived a moment so fully her echoes still find a way to your heart. So if it hurts, maybe that's okay. If it still glitters in the dark and you cry when no one is looking, maybe that's okay too.

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:14 You're not weak for remembering. You're not broken. Carrying pieces of people with you is what makes you real. That's what makes you capable of love. And love, in all its forms, is the reason we grieve at all.

Lynne 1:00:28 Oh, it's lovely, Georgina. Thank you.

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:32 Thank you so, so much. And I hope you enjoyed this. I hope it brings you a little bit of peace. And I hope you have a fantastic rest of your week. We'll talk soon.

Lynne 1:00:44 Indeed.

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:46 And, uh, thank you as ever for listening.

Lynne 1:00:48 God bless everyone.

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:49 Take care.

Lynne 1:00:50 Bye-bye.