EP260: Body Image with Alex Light

Natalie Cassidy 0:02:21 Hello and welcome to Life with Nat. Today I am joined— I'm really, really excited. By the wonderful Alex Light. I've followed Alex on Insta for a very long time, and her posts and conversations have always bolstered me up when I feel low. And she talks so beautifully and eloquently about body positivity. She has a wonderful book called You Are Not a Before Picture, which was a Sunday Times bestseller. And she has 2 beautiful children, one of which wasn't born long ago. Alex, thank you for joining me.

Alex Light 0:02:54 Hi, I'm so excited to be here with you. Thank you so much for having me.

Natalie Cassidy 0:02:58 Can I just say thank you so much? How you are on time this morning with 2 small children, I will never know.

Alex Light 0:03:04 I don't know either, to be quite honest with you. It's been hectic, but I'm here and I'm excited. I made it work. I was like, Dave, to my husband, like, you've got the kids, I'm, I'm doing a thing, okay?

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:17 Thank you so much. Congratulations. How are you?

Alex Light 0:03:21 Thank you. I'm okay, I'm okay. So 7 weeks the baby is now. Wow. So I still feel like I'm in the newborn trenches, you know?

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:29 Yes, yes.

Alex Light 0:03:30 And like, what is sleep? But things will get better. I will sleep again, I know that. I don't know when, but I will.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:37 You will. It's a wonderful, wonderful feeling, isn't it, that newborn stage? And it's so magical, but that tiredness you just cannot explain. It's, it's constant Sort of jet lag, really.

Alex Light 0:03:49 It is, isn't it? And it's just the anxiety around sleep, you know, when you're— when you're— when like 4 o'clock hits, 4 PM, and you're like, oh God, this— the sunset's scary setting, and you think, oh, I've got bed dread and it's coming. And yeah, it's coming. And but I, you know, that's what's nice about having a second is that you do know that that time passes. It does pass and it does get better. And so just saying it to myself all the time, like, this time will pass and it will And at the same time, you also want to enjoy it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:21 So you have that awful, awful guilt of wishing time away.

Alex Light 0:04:24 I know. And you see all those things on Instagram that make me feel bad all the time that says, you've got to enjoy every single second. You know, you only get 18 summers with your kids, so enjoy every single second. So I'm like hit with these emotional reels all the time, and I'm like too hungover— I'm not hungover, I wish— too hormonal for them. How old's your toddler now? How old's your little boy?

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:47 He's 2 and a half. Wow. So it is, that's the— you're in the trenches there. That's, that's, that's big time. But beautiful, beautiful to, to have them close together. It'll be lovely in a few years. That's what I thought. So nice.

Alex Light 0:05:02 That's what I thought. Just get it over and done with, you know? Like, yeah, just, I don't wanna get out of the trenches and then go back in. So yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:08 Fantastic. Alex, I've followed you, honestly, I've, I've followed you for years and years and—

Alex Light 0:05:14 Aw.

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:14 Just want to really, I genuinely mean it, to say thank you. I feel that you are so down to earth and real and you say speak about things that we all think about. And I just wanted to go back to the beginning. We're here, my pod is very, you know, you can just talk about whatever you want. But I'd love to know when you first started to feel comfortable to talk about those things, how social media became such a big part of your life, and yeah, just how it all started, really, and where you are now.

Alex Light 0:05:43 Gosh, so I have had disordered eating really since a very young age. I started dieting when I was I think about 11, 10, 11, doing like Weight Watchers groups and Slimming World groups. And I was just on and off diets for a really, really long time, for probably a decade. Yeah, yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:06:07 I was about 14, I think, when I first did my Weight Watchers diet.

Alex Light 0:06:11 Were you?

Natalie Cassidy 0:06:12 Yeah, I think so.

Alex Light 0:06:15 We're '80s kids, aren't we? Yeah, exactly.

Alex Light 0:06:17 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think it was like par for the course, unfortunately. And then so just so much disordered eating followed because I'd been on diets for so long, I just didn't know how to eat anymore. So my eating was just completely disordered. And then I moved down to— I moved down to London.

Alex Light 0:06:33 I got a job in magazines. And some— for some reason, somehow, the disordered eating kind of turned into an eating disorder. And I just got really unwell and just sicker and sicker and sicker until my mum intervened and said, we need to get you some help. Um, and I went to a psychiatrist, and I was diagnosed with anorexia and bulimia. And That then started a very long road of recovery for me, and it really was long.

Alex Light 0:07:02 It was like years and years and years.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:03 Yeah.

Alex Light 0:07:04 Something that I think is important to talk about as well, because I think you often hear that people are sick and then they get some help and then they're just like better, you know, it takes them 6 months and then they're recovered. And it just wasn't the case for me. Those eating disorders kind of morphed into binge eating disorder, which I struggled with for a good few years as well.

Alex Light 0:07:22 But kind of around that time, I was on Instagram, and I was just sharing fashion and beauty content. And I was sharing my outfits and some of my makeup. And what I was doing at the time was I was Facetuning, I was editing— actually, it was before Facetune, before Facetune and those editing apps existed, I downloaded Photoshop so that I could slim my body.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:42 Okay.

Alex Light 0:07:42 And I would slim my waist and slim my legs and, and slim my jawline, and just essentially make myself into like a but a completely different person, but one that I thought was more socially acceptable.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:56 Mm-hmm.

Alex Light 0:07:56 But then while I was going through this recovery, you know, concurrently, I started to realise that the things I was putting out really wasn't aligned with what I was learning sort of behind the scenes in my recovery. I was starting to learn about diet culture and about the pressure on women's shoulders to be thin and stay thin and just to, to just be small at all costs.

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:18 Mm-hmm.

Alex Light 0:08:19 And I realised that what I was doing was really at odds with that because I was putting out all this content to women.

Alex Light 0:08:24 It was only women who followed me. I was putting out all this content to women that was completely edited, that was completely unrealistic beauty standards, um, because it literally wasn't real, wasn't me. And so one day I just decided to share a post about all my eating struggles, and it was a big deal at the time because really not many people in my life knew, or they, they knew because of how I'd looked for a long time because I'd gotten so thin, but I hadn't opened up to anyone apart from my immediate family and boyfriend.

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:54 Yeah.

Alex Light 0:08:55 I kind of just took this leap and was like, I'm going to talk about it online.

Alex Light 0:08:58 I'm just going to share a post and see what happens. And so I shared this post about— and I just detailed what exactly what I've been through with eating disorders. And the response was unbelievable. The response not just from people that I didn't know, people that followed me, but from people that I knew in real life who I had no idea struggled with anything to do with body image or disordered eating or eating disorders. And I kind of just realised like, this is an even bigger problem than I This is huge, and it affects so many of us, especially, you know, like we said, those of us who grew up in the '80s and the '90s, you know, like, it was such a brutal— it was such a brutal time.

Alex Light 0:09:35 It was brutal.

Natalie Cassidy 0:09:36 I was looking back and flicking through some of your posts this morning, you know, just to refresh my memory. And when you look at— I love that post. Well, I hate that post, but that post where you're showing all the women that we were told were fat, i.e., Bridget Jones, Britney Spears, Ugly Betty. You know, it's absolutely absurd.

Alex Light 0:09:56 It's absurd. And Bridget Jones, I remember distinctly them showing her weight in the film, and I think it was 9 stone 4. And like, we were supposed to think that she was like fat and dowdy and couldn't get a man because of that. It's just crazy. Like, yeah, like, in, in no world am I 9 stone 4. My, my God, that is so slim.

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:17 It's so slim. So slim. Yeah, yeah. And when I watch Bridget Jones now, I put it on the other day, it was on the telly, and she's so sexy and so gorgeous.

Alex Light 0:10:27 I know, she's so attractive. Yeah. I know. This whole thing about the, you know, the actress herself, Renée Zellweger, who she, you know, she put on weight for it and then lost all the weight for it. And we were totally obsessed, like the media was obsessed with this transformation.

Alex Light 0:10:42 So, but yeah, going back to then, so basically momentum just built from there because I— so many of us suffer with our body image. And then I started to explore why, and I went back to like everything that we'd experienced, all this you know, the media, the tabloids, which I imagine you have had, you know, you've got your own experiences with as well, sort of being in the public eye during that time as well.

Natalie Cassidy 0:11:04 Very much so. I mean, throughout the '90s, I was 10 in 1993 when I went into EastEnders. But even when I was sort of 13, 14, you'd have TV critics writing about me as a beached whale.

Natalie Cassidy 0:11:18 And when you look back at— Really? Yeah, it was all about the shape of Sonia as well as her comedic value. But she was funny because she was she was plump, and all of those sort of stereotypes that go together. And at the time, I didn't think it bothered me, and I have got a very thick skin. But when I really dig deep now, you know, very much like the beginning of your journey— Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:11:40 I was definitely that diet culture, the cabbage soup diet, then the Weight Watchers, then the Slimming World, and then this and that. And, you know, all of those things happened. And I think you're right. I think when you— I don't know if I know a woman genuinely know a woman who doesn't talk about what size they are, how fit they are, what size dress they fit into. I don't think I know someone.

Alex Light 0:12:05 Same. I can't think of a single— I can't think of a single woman who doesn't have at least one hang-up.

Natalie Cassidy 0:12:11 Yeah.

Alex Light 0:12:12 About her body. But, like, going back to what you went through, that is so brutal, and there's no way that that wouldn't have affected you because you're at such a formative age as well, you know, that 13, 14, and you find yourself suddenly in the public eye and on TV, And that is— and then for people to be, for the media as well, to be talking about your shape, like, I'm just so sorry that happened, because I can't imagine, and I don't, I don't know if I would, like, recover from that, you know, that's really brutal.

Natalie Cassidy 0:12:38 I think, again, it was that age, it wasn't right, but that was the sort of decade we were in, and obviously you had the pink tops, and the pink tops, as I like to call them, your Closer's and your Now's and all of those, and as much as you'd do an interview, and they'd be really nice, you'd have a fun day at Heat, you know, I really did, on the other breath, you'd have, have an awards ceremony and you'd have your ticks and your crosses. And, you know, I was always in the cross section.

Alex Light 0:13:03 Oh. Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:13:05 It's just, yeah, it's crazy when you look back. It was. But I then did a fitness DVD, to my detriment, 'cause that was the worst thing for me to do, where I lost a lot of weight. I was 7 stone 12 at the end of that.

Alex Light 0:13:18 Oh my goodness. Whoa.

Natalie Cassidy 0:13:22 I lost 4 stone in 3 months.

Alex Light 0:13:26 Wow.

Natalie Cassidy 0:13:26 I put it all back on again. Yeah, very quickly.

Alex Light 0:13:29 Well, it's no surprise if you lost it that, you know, lost so much that quickly. Yeah. Were you just starving yourself, essentially?

Natalie Cassidy 0:13:35 Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Very, very low calorie diet and exercise and what have you. But as you say, that's why you're such an inspiration to me, because yeah, I've re— I have really been through it. And I've just, I've actually just done a podcast where I went really into detail about what I went through, and I found it really cathartic, actually.

Alex Light 0:13:52 Good.

Natalie Cassidy 0:13:53 'Cause I don't really talk about it anymore, but I think it's really important. I think it's important to talk about, really, you know, because like you say, I think sharing our experiences, it really helps people. They know that they're not alone.

Alex Light 0:16:02 I guess what you went through, like, talking about it will help— will help you and also help the people listening who consumed all that content at the time.

Natalie Cassidy 0:16:12 Yeah.

Alex Light 0:16:13 Because we looked at those photos of women that, you know, the magazines and the newspapers are saying, oh, she's fat, or she's got cellulite, or she's got this or that. We weren't looking at those women and laughing. We were looking at them thinking, oh God, if they think that about them, what they— what would they say about me? And, oh, they think she's fat, but I'm much bigger than her. You know, we weren't laughing along with them. It was, it was, it was shaping how we felt about ourselves as well. So I think it's really powerful that you talk. Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:16:41 I completely agree with you, and it's good that we do talk. But something like you say, I feel that we didn't laugh along. We read things we couldn't And then I looked at another post of yours, which you're absolutely right about, this comment culture and how many people are being so rude online and are very— it's completely normalised. They don't care that it's public. They're writing about people, you know, I wish she'd, you know, blow her up, or, she's really fat, or, she's really ugly.

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:14 What do you think about that? What can we do about that? Because obviously Instagram has become your career. Social media has been fantastic for the both of us. You know, I get lots of work from it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:23 I find it a really positive place. But when I see that side, I just wanna chuck my phone in the bin. How do you manage that?

Alex Light 0:17:30 It terrifies me when I see the— and I think the post you're referring to was comments about North West, Kim Kardashian's daughter, who was a 13-year-old girl, and the comments about her. I've actually— I don't think I've ever seen such disgusting comments on social media, and that says a lot because there are a lot of disgusting comments on social media.

Alex Light 0:17:51 But it terrifies me how comments comfortable people feel to comment on women's bodies in such a disgusting way. And like you say, they don't care that it's public and people can see. I feel— which is also quite scary— I feel desensitised to it. I don't know if you do too. Like, I've been on social media for like 12 years now, I want to say.

Alex Light 0:18:16 I don't even know, but a long time. And, um, I'm just used to like people saying things to me or people writing in the comments section or DMing me.

Natalie Cassidy 0:18:23 That's really, It is, isn't it?

Alex Light 0:18:27 It's really, really scary.

Natalie Cassidy 0:18:29 It's a bit like the time where we were talking about computer games for boys and them being desensitised because they're blowing people up in a computer game and then gun culture and all of that sort of stuff.

Alex Light 0:18:41 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:18:42 I'm really lucky. I don't get many. I don't know why. I don't, I don't get a lot of hate, which is really lovely.

Alex Light 0:18:48 But when I read it, when I read it, it's really hard.

Natalie Cassidy 0:18:51 for other people, I find it really scary. And I, I don't know what you do about it, really. I just feel that we had it bad in the '90s because of the images and the magazines and the films and all of those things. But when I've got a 15-year-old, you know, she'll be 16 in a couple of weeks, and it petrifies me what children have to go through.

Alex Light 0:19:15 Yeah, that must be hard. Because I feel for parents who have older kids now because what do you do? Do you limit their use of social media or do you take it away completely? But then knowing that all their friends are on there, it's just, it's really hard.

Natalie Cassidy 0:19:32 Yeah, it is.

Alex Light 0:19:33 But I don't know what the answer is.

Natalie Cassidy 0:19:36 No.

Alex Light 0:19:36 I think that if people— actually, I do know the answer. I think that Instagram and TikTok and these social media platforms should have more guidelines in place. They should be more vigilant and they should be looking out for for abuse, because that's what it is. It's just abuse. It's online abuse. But unfortunately, I don't think they care enough. Well, we know they don't care enough because there are a whole ton of ethical problems with Instagram and, and Facebook and TikTok, and they've— it's been shown time and time again that they just, they just don't do anything about it. So unfortunately, I think it's in our hands.

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:10 Yeah. And I think, you know what the biggest shame is? They can sit and say, well, there's just billions and billions of people commenting all the time. We know the tools and the power and the technology now of AI.

Alex Light 0:20:21 Right.

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:22 Right? I believe if they put a programme in place with keywords in, then those comments could just disappear or not be posted. There's got to be technology now to be able to do that.

Alex Light 0:20:35 Definitely. Definitely.

Alex Light 0:20:36 AI is— the power of AI is unbelievable. But it would cost them manpower and a lot of money, and they don't care, essentially. It doesn't line their pockets at the end of the day, making social media more, you know, addictive addictive, making the algorithm sharper and more sensitive so that you stay on for longer and you see exactly— like, all of that stuff keeps you on the app for longer, and that's what they care about. It is a real shame, but I think it has to be in our hands, and I just think people have to be more accountable for what they say online. And I think more people need to talk about the abuse so that it's given an open forum and people can do their best to shut it down when they see it, report the comments.

Alex Light 0:21:18 Let's not become desensitised to this. Let's not normalise this. Yeah. You would never speak to someone like this in real life. You wouldn't dare.

Alex Light 0:21:26 You wouldn't have the guts to say that. No, you wouldn't. To people in real life. You really wouldn't.

Natalie Cassidy 0:21:29 You wouldn't walk up to somebody, would you, and say those things? It's a— yeah, it's an interesting point. Here's something I wanted to show you. I've been waiting to see you. I saw this in a card shop.

Alex Light 0:21:40 Oh, go on.

Natalie Cassidy 0:21:42 And I thought, I must— I'm gonna save this for Alex, okay? Okay. So I walked into a card shop up the West End the other day. I was buying some birthday cards, and I saw this card, and I was so furious. I thought, right, I'm gonna buy it. as much as I didn't want to spend my money on it. And this is, this is the card that I bought, right? Which I just couldn't believe. It says, hello 999, I can't stop eating. So I just wondered, who, who is that for? Who are you buying that card for? Who has designed that?

Alex Light 0:22:12 Wait, who, who are you buying that? Is it a birthday card?

Natalie Cassidy 0:22:15 It's just a blank, blank for your own message.

Alex Light 0:22:17 Okay, so what kind of card is it? Like, what are you getting? Yeah, what are you giving that to someone for? Is it a thank you card? Happy birthday card. It's stupid.

Natalie Cassidy 0:22:26 It's the most ridiculous. And it just, it really got me. It just got me.

Alex Light 0:22:30 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:22:30 I thought, why are we in 2026 and that card's allowed to be on a shelf? I just found it really triggering. And, you know, for anybody like yourself who, you know, have been through eating disorders, still in recovery from that sort of thing, this shit shouldn't be on the shelf. I just wonder. Yeah, that's it.

Alex Light 0:22:46 It's just pure, pure shit. You know what I actually, I thought you were gonna show me is a because I've seen it a lot recently. I think it's a card for a child to give to their mum, and it says, happy birthday, Mum. Sorry I ruined your body.

Natalie Cassidy 0:22:58 Oh my God.

Alex Light 0:23:00 I know.

Natalie Cassidy 0:23:02 Wow.

Alex Light 0:23:03 Of all the things that we're going to put on the front of a card about a child's relationship with their mother, that is what you're going to choose? That is— that feels like the most important thing to choose. And of course, they didn't ruin your body. Oh, I mean, it's the most amazing thing ever. Isn't it? Isn't it?

Natalie Cassidy 0:23:22 It's the— I mean, we are abs— we're so lucky and so blessed to be able to grow children. I mean, it's just a miracle. Every time I see a pregnant lady, you know, it's a miracle. Every time I see a newborn baby, I just weep. It's amazing, you know?

Alex Light 0:23:37 I look— I look at my baby every day, and I'm like, I can't believe you've got eyelashes, and I did that. And, like, toes and eyes. And it's just— it's— and my toddler, couple is obsessed with my C-section scar because, yes, I can't believe that that's where he came from, you know. He thinks it's just magic, and he gets me to tell the story every time. And just the idea that we would pass this on to our kids, that somehow you ruined— yeah, my body, is just—

Natalie Cassidy 0:24:05 I had both of my girls caesarean, and, uh, did you? Sometimes Joni will say, well, you know, when I came out of your faffolina, or whatever, as she And I say, no, no, darling, no, no, no, no. I said, you come out the sunroof, you come out the tummy. Don't worry about that. You came out perfect. It's like a little Lion King moment.

Alex Light 0:24:25 It was, wasn't it? I've got that photo of him being lifted up. It was like, Simba!

Natalie Cassidy 0:24:32 But again, all of those things, we are very similar. I don't know if you felt guilt through that. I don't know if you've had 2 C-sections, but—

Alex Light 0:24:40 I have.

Natalie Cassidy 0:24:40 You have. So you feel, am I all right? Am I normal? I haven't done it properly. And then I struggle with that. struggled with breastfeeding, and that didn't really go to plan for me. So all, you know, all of these things, I do think they shape us. You know, they're hard to deal with, but they do make you stronger, Alex, in the end.

Alex Light 0:24:59 I think, you know, we are so similar because I felt a lot of guilt about my C-sections, especially because I chose the C-sections. My sister had birth trauma, so did my mum, and I didn't want to experience that myself. I know C-section mums can experience birth trauma, but I just, I wanted to have the control of a C-section. So I had— I chose a C-section, so there was, there was like internal shame around that. And I also haven't breastfed either of my boys. I got a breast reduction like 12 years ago.

Natalie Cassidy 0:25:29 Yeah.

Alex Light 0:25:29 And I think it's for that reason that I just didn't get any milk either time. And there's so much shame around that as well.

Natalie Cassidy 0:25:35 There's a lot of shame around that, and it really angers me actually, because the people, the people that can breastfeed really well, and they're like Daisy the cow, and it just comes to them, and they're filling up bottles left, right, and centre, they're very quick, they're very quick to say, no, you have got the milk, you just need And I used to think, how dare you tell me? I've sat crying with a pump and a baby on a breast and get 10 millilitres in 2 hours. There isn't anything, you know? It's hard, that.

Alex Light 0:26:05 Savage. It's really hard. It's really hard. And especially, you know what it's like when all those hormones, those postpartum hormones are flying around and you just feel useless. Like, I should be feeding my baby from my body and I can't. And it's not like, I think people think these things are like, you just— that a lot of women go, I can't be bothered, stick a bottle in. And for a lot of us, it's just not like that. It's a really— it's a hard decision, you know. And it's—

Natalie Cassidy 0:26:31 Yeah.

Alex Light 0:26:31 On a tangent, but let me know what you think of this, right? Because my youngest, he's 7 weeks old, and he's been— since he's been born, he's been like crying so bad, and we've had loads of feeding issues. So we took him to a consultant, a lactation consultant. This is an amazing charity near us.

Natalie Cassidy 0:26:47 Yeah.

Alex Light 0:26:48 And she looked inside his mouth and said he's got a tongue which will be contributing to a lot of this. And she said, I can refer you to the NHS, but they prioritise breastfeeding babies, so you won't be seen for a long time.

Natalie Cassidy 0:26:59 Wow.

Alex Light 0:27:00 It just felt like a slap in the face, you know? I bet. So we went private because I was like, I wanna— my baby's in pain, I'm gonna sort this out. But the fact that we had to go, you know, luckily we can afford it, we've got the means. But like, the fact that I had to go private and like, what about the bottle-feeding mums who can't afford to go private? And yet they're made to wait because, you know, it's not a priority. It's not first come, first served, it's who's breastfeeding.

Natalie Cassidy 0:27:24 Yeah, that's, uh, very, very sad actually. Yeah, because there shouldn't be a difference. Your child needs to be fed. And in this day and age, the formula that we have is absolutely fantastic. It's got everything in it a child needs. I say it all the time to people. Yeah, you know, my children are all right.

Alex Light 0:27:41 Your children, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I'm bottle-fed.

Natalie Cassidy 0:27:46 Yeah, I'm bottle-fed.

Alex Light 0:27:47 All my sisters are. Yeah, we're all okay. Yeah. Um, but one last thing on the shame I wanted to say is that if we were men, we wouldn't feel the shame around having a C-section or bottle feeding. No. You know, it's very much a female thing. You know, it's like internalised in us that we need to suffer and we need to do things the right way. If not, we've failed at being a mother or being a woman in some way. There is so much pressure on us, but from ourselves, of course, but from society.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:20 From society. And I think it starts so young, the pressures of life.

Alex Light 0:28:25 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:27 You know, even at school, what boy fancies you in primary school?

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:30 Are you the pretty one? I was never the pretty one in the playground at 10, 11. You know, and then you've got the, are you growing boobs? Do you look like a teenager? All of those, you know, it's unbelievable.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:45 And I know, absolutely, of course, boys and men, they experience a lot. But I just think for us, with motherhood especially, the guilt of everything. You know, even now, I, you know, you think that, sorry to tell you this, but you think it might get easier. Yeah. It'll get easier as they get older.

Natalie Cassidy 0:29:05 I don't, I think it gets harder personally. I mean, it's beautiful, but the emotions and the, they need you more. They need you around. You know, I'd say to you, once that baby's 6 months, Get on, get yourself on holiday for 2 weeks. They don't even know, you know, they don't know at that age.

Natalie Cassidy 0:29:22 You know, and you feel the guilt. Yeah. I never left my kids when they were little. But now it's even worse. I'm trying to, I said to Mark, should we go away for a couple of nights?

Natalie Cassidy 0:29:33 And I'm thinking, oh, they're just back to school. And is it really bad? Maybe that's my thing. Maybe I'm a bit mad and just don't like leaving them. But yeah, I just don't feel like it gets any easier.

Alex Light 0:29:44 Yeah, I will be like that as well. I will be like that. I already am having nightmares about my son going to university, or just leaving home at 18, and I'm like, oh God, he's, he's 2.

Natalie Cassidy 0:29:55 Don't worry about that at the moment. And also, no one's leaving home. I think the average age a child is leaving home is about 34.

Alex Light 0:30:02 Is it really?

Natalie Cassidy 0:30:03 Yeah, because of, you know, people not being able to afford stuff. So I think, I think we're all right. Okay, okay.

Alex Light 0:30:11 We've probably got bigger fish to fry right now.

Natalie Cassidy 0:30:13 Yeah, absolutely.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:09 So you're at home at the moment and you're resting, but obviously with your work, are you— you're just sort of working straight away, I would imagine?

Alex Light 0:32:17 Yeah, yeah, that's the great thing about social media, isn't it? Is that— and I forgot how much babies sleep in the day. It's a— it's great.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:26 I hope you're sleeping while they're sleeping, but you're not, are you? Are you?

Alex Light 0:32:29 No, no, I, I, you know, the, the postpartum naps give me like this sense of like anxiety when I wake up. I don't know if you remember that, but like, oh, I just, I don't, I don't feel right when I wake up. So I'm like, it's best not to even nap. No, just be tired. Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:47 And then be awake all night.

Alex Light 0:32:49 And then be awake all night. I love my life right now.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:53 Oh, bless you, bless you. It does get easier, like you said.

Alex Light 0:32:57 Yeah, until the teenage years, right?

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:00 Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, I, I've not had too bad a time, I have to say. Touch wood. Okay. It's not been too bad for me.

Alex Light 0:33:09 I'm one of 5 girls. Oh, wow.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:11 Wow.

Alex Light 0:33:11 Yeah. So you can imagine my— and we're really close together because there was twins. So we are— we were— I was— I'm the eldest and I was— we were 5 under 6, basically.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:22 Wow.

Alex Light 0:33:22 They— I know, I know. And I never really thought about it until I became a mum. And now I say to my mum, I don't say how, I just say why. Like, why? Why How did you do it?

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:33 And what did she say?

Alex Light 0:33:34 Do you feel like you had the choice not to? I don't understand why you just did it. She's like, I don't really, I don't really know. But we're all very close now, so that's good. But the, the teenage years in my household were a lot. I can imagine. Very close together. Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:46 Goodness me.

Alex Light 0:33:47 Chaos.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:47 Yeah. I've got a 6-year gap between my 2, so, um—

Alex Light 0:33:51 Have you? Okay, that's nice. That's—

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:53 It's nice, but so Joni, Joni's just turned 10.

Alex Light 0:33:57 Okay.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:58 Now I can feel her hormones and moods coming in, and the other one's sort of getting better, and it's just gonna start again now. So, uh, yeah, you know, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

Alex Light 0:34:08 Oh, nice though.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:10 It is lovely. It is lovely.

Alex Light 0:34:12 Yeah, yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:13 So in terms of your— the stuff you're doing now, obviously you're going to concentrate on just having, you know, looking after your baby, hopefully getting some sleep and what have you.

Alex Light 0:34:25 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:25 You've obviously written— how many books have you written?

Alex Light 0:34:28 2.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:29 2 books. Yeah. So yeah, have you got any, any Any more sort of ideas for books in the pipeline, or any other ideas?

Alex Light 0:34:37 Definitely not right now. No, no, no. But I do think that I've got a lot of work in the body image space, because as much as the '90s and the noughties were brutal for body image, and like just telling women that they needed to be thin, and it was the heroin chic era, which is a horror. horrifying phrase, isn't it? And it was a nothing tastes as good as skinny feels era.

Natalie Cassidy 0:35:04 Oh, yes, yes, yes, remember that.

Alex Light 0:35:06 But we're kind of back now to this, you know, this like ultra-thin celebrities.

Natalie Cassidy 0:35:11 Yeah.

Alex Light 0:35:12 Becoming very thin, losing a lot of weight. And obviously we're in the era of GLP-1s now, which are just so commonplace, you know. You'd be hard-pressed to, to not know someone who was taking one. So I think there's a lot of work to do in the body image space And I think it's a really hard time for women and girls right now.

Natalie Cassidy 0:35:34 I completely agree with you. And I think it's— I'm finding I'm having to really— I really think about my body at the moment. And I'm very honest. I always have been.

Natalie Cassidy 0:35:46 But over the summer, I've definitely, you know, trousers are a bit tight and not feeling 100%, you know. And it's not about— for me, it's not about being a certain size. exact target. But I have really, I don't wanna throw all my clothes away. I just wanna— I know.

Natalie Cassidy 0:36:04 You know, it's that as well. It's money and it's waste and it's— Yeah. So I just wanna get back to that, but without feeling annoyed at myself. I need to go, actually, I've had a beautiful summer. I've had such a good time.

Alex Light 0:36:17 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:36:18 And we've just had a really, we've been so fortunate. We've been on holiday a couple of times, which we don't usually do, but we've travelled and we've explored and we've eaten and we've drank and, It's been absolutely amazing.

Alex Light 0:36:31 Gorgeous. I love that.

Natalie Cassidy 0:36:33 So there's a part of me that goes, I don't want to worry about losing weight again. It's really, I'm at a real big stage at the moment in my head where I'm sort of fighting with myself. But part of me is like, I feel really good. Just go and buy some new clothes. It's not a big deal.

Natalie Cassidy 0:36:49 Go up a size and be all right. But the other side, I know that I feel, when I wake up, I feel a bit lighter and I feel a bit more energetic when I'm not 10, when I haven't got these 10 pounds on. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And I'm sorry if that's, please, triggering for you, or you can talk about the weight, but I'm just asking you your opinion, really, because again, I think all women have this constant battle.

Natalie Cassidy 0:37:12 But when I get ready and I put my makeup on and I put something on, or even this morning, I chucked my leggings under my t-shirt, I know that I think, actually, I feel attractive. I don't think there's anything wrong with me. I feel good, I look good. So why am I always half-assing popping on back to that, that sort of weight that I know that I should be. Why should I?

Alex Light 0:37:33 You know, I'm really glad you brought this up, and, and I, I think it's something that's really important to talk about. And I think, I think that this sort of is part of the reason that the body positivity movement didn't stay, didn't last, and that it was, you know, so many people sort of turned their backs on it, was that it was really prescriptive and it was like, you can't talk about wanting to be thin. You don't want to be thin. You don't want to lose weight. You have to be exactly happy as you are. And it didn't leave room for much nuance. And there is so much nuance in this conversation because—

Natalie Cassidy 0:38:09 Yeah.

Alex Light 0:38:10 It's all very well and good to say, I want to love myself. I am exactly happy as I am. But we have grown up in this world that tells us that we should never be happy enough as we are, that we are— there's always something to fix. There's always some way to be better. There's always pounds to lose. There's a size to go down. And so to just accept ourselves as we are is really difficult. And also, it doesn't leave room for people that do want to lose weight for reasons that don't have to do with diet culture and don't have to do with, uh, you know, outside pressures.

Natalie Cassidy 0:38:43 Like, so I genuinely, Alex, honestly, I feel like mine isn't to do with outside pressures. It's to do with— Yeah. Exactly. I know it's really basic.

Natalie Cassidy 0:38:54 It's to do I do with really love— I like my wardrobe. I've got some nice trousers. I wanna fit into them. And I also do definitely have more energy if I'm about half a stone lighter than I am. I definitely just feel better within myself.

Natalie Cassidy 0:39:08 Right. And believe me, we're not sitting here talking about 7.5 stones, 8 stones. We're talking about being 10 stone and feeling good, you know? And I'm only 5 foot 3. Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:39:17 So I'm not talking about being size 6s, 8s. to feel, you know, a normal size. Do you know what I mean?

Alex Light 0:39:23 And I, and I, I honestly just, I really, and I, I know people will disagree with me, but I think it's okay to say that and to feel like that. And I think, I think what's really important, and it sounds like you have, is that you interrogate why you feel like you need to lose weight.

Natalie Cassidy 0:39:40 Yes.

Alex Light 0:39:40 You interrogate that and, you know, question it. Why? And see where that why comes down to. Is it because I think I will, I, I conform more? Is that I think society will accept me more? Is it that I think, um, I will fit the beauty standard better? And, you know, those reasons, and they're still valid, you know, I don't want to dismiss anyone's—

Natalie Cassidy 0:40:01 Absolutely. No, they are still valid.

Alex Light 0:40:04 But I think maybe they're, you know, not the best reasons to throw yourself into a diet or throw yourself into, into intentional weight loss, which can be harmful, you know.

Natalie Cassidy 0:40:17 Yeah.

Alex Light 0:40:17 Um, I think just questioning your why and questioning the reasons. But ultimately, everyone has bodily autonomy and knows what they need to do with their body. And I think that the body acceptance movement needs to make room for that and needs to accept people where they're at. You know, I think for me, that's really important. That's an important part of us all moving on from this and, and just accepting ourselves.

Natalie Cassidy 0:40:42 And just to not have that shame if you— because then, as you say, that body positivity movement, they'll feel frightened getting to think, oh, I— but I would like to lose a couple of pounds, is that wrong? And then you're worrying about that side of it as well, and thinking, oh, I can't say that, 'cause that's wrong. I get, I get exactly what you mean, you know? Exactly, yeah.

Alex Light 0:40:58 There's another standard. There's another standard that you're holding yourself to that you can't meet. The standard to be perfect with my self-acceptance, you know? Like, why don't I love myself? Everyone's telling me to love myself, but I don't. And it's like, we don't have to be there. We can be body neutral, or we can, we can work towards the goal of, like, loving ourselves, but accept that we, we don't necessarily have to be there, and we're not going to be there, overnight. Like, we're unpicking a lot, a lot of, of work, you know, a lot of conditioning, and that takes a long time, and it's really, it's really hard.

Natalie Cassidy 0:41:29 Yeah, absolutely.

Alex Light 0:41:30 And, you know, I, I, you know, and some people say, you know, find this shocking when I say it, but like, I still feel those pressures, you know. I have at points considered, you know, thought about, oh, maybe, you know, maybe I should take a GLP-1. Oh, I wonder, you know, I wonder. I've not gone, I've not gone through with it. I don't think I ever would, but I can't say sometimes the temptation isn't there.

Natalie Cassidy 0:41:54 I agree.

Alex Light 0:41:54 Because we're all still operating within a system that rewards women who are smaller and thinner. And, you know, we're upheld— we're held to a beauty standard that is very thin, and that pressure affects all of us. And I think when we acknowledge that and talk about it, we just— we make everyone feel less alone.

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:13 Yes, I completely agree.

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:15 And I know, again, I don't know whether this is right But if I look back on the summer, right, this is me being honest. I'm not talking about crash dieting. I'm talking about you can't drink a bottle of rosé every other day, loads of gin and tonics, have barbecues 3 times a week, eating burgers, sausage. I just mean, I've overindulged. I've had a fantastic time.

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:40 But I'm not talking about going on a crash diet now. I'm talking about having a week off of no sugar. No booze, moving a bit more, going on a walk, you know, things that just are normal and that make you feel better. Do you know what I mean?

Alex Light 0:42:53 Of course. I haven't moved a muscle for 6 weeks. Well, yeah, I didn't move for 9 months. Well, see, my God, my steps were down to like 3 a day. I turned everything off. It was embarrassing. I think that's what a lot of people find as well, that if you do have periods where you are, you know, you're indulging more, when you go back to, like, your normal life and normal routine, your body kind of does come to its sort of set point anyway, you know?

Natalie Cassidy 0:43:22 Yeah, absolutely.

Alex Light 0:43:23 Where it's kind of where it's happy being, where it's, where it's supposed to be.

Natalie Cassidy 0:43:26 And I think that's the main thing, isn't it? And I know it's a cliché, but it is about being happy. And but really, really sitting there and forgetting about everybody and thinking of yourself and thinking thinking, do I feel happy and content with life? I'm not talking just about body, with everything in your life.

Alex Light 0:43:45 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:43:46 Your body and how it looks and that image should really be really low on the list, you know. It's about our health and our happiness and the relationships we form and our friendships and our home life, you know.

Alex Light 0:43:59 You know, we're social creatures and we thrive on connection. That's what makes us happy as humans not fitting it, you know, not reaching a goal number on the scales or like, or reaching a certain size. And like, those things might give you an initial sense of euphoria, like, oh, I did it, but it doesn't last. No, it doesn't last. And what you'll find, what, what people find that do reach that— and I know because I reached my goal weight again and again and again, and I, it just, the goal weight kept getting smaller and smaller and smaller because I thought, oh well, that didn't work, that didn't make me happy, uh, I must need to lose more weight and more weight and more weight.

Alex Light 0:44:37 And I never found that happiness. There was no like pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. No, because there isn't. It doesn't, it doesn't give you that deep sense of contentment.

Natalie Cassidy 0:44:48 I was probably at my unhappiest at my lightest.

Alex Light 0:44:53 Same.

Natalie Cassidy 0:44:53 I wasn't me. I wasn't me.

Alex Light 0:44:55 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:44:56 I didn't have a life.

Alex Light 0:44:58 And also you're terrified that you're going to put it back on and you're gonna— those scales are going to creep up again. So it's, it's a really— yeah, I, I, I was the same, honestly, the same as you. I was, I was the most unhappy when I was at my lowest weight. Yeah, completely. And yet everyone around me was saying, oh wow, you look, you look amazing!

Alex Light 0:45:16 How did you lose so much weight? What, what are your secrets? Tell me your secrets. I was like, my secrets is that like, I'm, I'm like, I'm on a juice diet 24/7. I'm not like, I'm not even eating food and I'm deeply, deeply miserable, like very, very depressed.

Alex Light 0:45:33 Yeah. So yeah, it was a bad time.

Natalie Cassidy 0:45:35 Well, it's wonderful. You look absolutely beautiful. It's amazing that you've just had a baby and you've come to join me. Thank you so much. Honestly, I really appreciate it.

Alex Light 0:45:45 So happy to join you. Honestly, thank you. I'm, I'm, yeah, delighted. Thank you so much.

Natalie Cassidy 0:45:50 And you've got September now, so you've got all of the BRRR months ahead to get all cosy and snuggly. Are you a summer or winter Winter girl.

Alex Light 0:45:58 Winter. Oh my God, I, I hate summer with a passion. I hate it. Like, the, the, the heat waves have just not been my friend. And like, I'm not good with heat waves now anyway, but pregnant, I was— it was hell on earth. I hate it. I sweat so much. Like, I am such a sweater. Like, I, I, I'm drenched in like seconds with any hot weather. So I've just been so happy for the bare months. What about you?

Natalie Cassidy 0:46:28 I'm the same. I, I I've tried to embrace it this year, and I have really enjoyed it. I've thought, stop moaning about it, but I get awful hay fever, I get bitten a lot by mosquitoes, terribly. It's just not my, I cannot wait. Clocks go back, and I'm excited. Light my candle. Me too, me too. Get my pyjamas on, all of that.

Alex Light 0:46:49 I went to Homesense yesterday, and there were tons of pumpkins everywhere, and Halloween stuff, and I was like, yeah!

Natalie Cassidy 0:46:59 When's your birthday?

Alex Light 0:47:01 August. It's just— Oh, okay. A few days ago.

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:03 Yeah. Oh, well, happy birthday. Virgo. Oh, Virgo.

Alex Light 0:47:06 Okay.

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:07 Yeah, very good. Now, I wondered, you're very, um, you're— I'm a Taurus. I wondered if you were—

Alex Light 0:47:11 Are you?

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:12 A Taurean baby.

Alex Light 0:47:14 But, uh, are you May? Is that May then?

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:15 May.

Alex Light 0:47:16 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay.

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:18 But very, very grounded. And you're very, very grounded, down to earth.

Alex Light 0:47:22 So I don't know much about Virgos, but, uh, yeah, no, I, I don't, I don't really know, but people say that, um, I think we're very Type A.

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:30 Right, okay.

Alex Light 0:47:32 Yeah, but that's all I know really. I don't know much about it, but yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:35 Are you a cooker at home? I don't think I've ever really seen you sort of preparing anything online, or—

Alex Light 0:47:40 I am the worst cook in the world. Yeah, absolutely dreadful. But food delivery boxes have changed my life.

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:48 Yep.

Alex Light 0:47:48 I started doing HelloFresh, and then, you know, you get all the instructions and they're idiot-proof, which is what I need because I'm an idiot in the kitchen. They are idiot-proof. And that has— it's really taught me how to— because I think, sorry to make it a bit bleak, but because I've had such issues with food for all my life, really until my late— to my mid-30s probably, because I'd had so many issues, I never learned how to cook. Because I didn't really cook, I didn't really eat, you know?

Natalie Cassidy 0:48:14 No.

Alex Light 0:48:15 So I never learned how to cook. So it's only in the past few years I've started to discover it and like, you know, explore it through these meal delivery boxes.

Natalie Cassidy 0:48:24 They are amazing.

Alex Light 0:48:25 Actually, they're really good. Yeah, they're amazing. It's changed that for me. But I, I do try and bake, and it's absolutely disastrous. I'd love to be a baker. I want to bake. I want to be the person that you come to my house, it smells like banana bread, and I'm like, oh, do you want a slice, or do you want a muffin? You know, but I just— I— it just turns out like shit.

Natalie Cassidy 0:48:43 Alex, give yourself a break at the moment. Yeah, your baking can come in later. You can't fucking bake at the moment, right? You've got too much on.

Alex Light 0:48:51 You've got too much odd.

Natalie Cassidy 0:48:54 Well, good luck with everything. Oh, absolutely. And thank you, and good luck with everything. Please keep in touch. I feel like we should—

Alex Light 0:49:01 thank you.

Natalie Cassidy 0:49:01 Yeah, I feel like we should do something. I don't know, I feel like there's a lot— I would love to. It'd be lovely to do something together, be it a— I would love to know, an event or a talk or for women.

Alex Light 0:49:12 I'd love to do that. Yeah, that would be amazing.

Natalie Cassidy 0:49:15 Where are you based roughly? Obviously Oh, okay, not far at all. Yeah, where are you? I'm over in Hertfordshire, not far.

Alex Light 0:49:22 Oh, not far, let's do something.

Natalie Cassidy 0:49:24 All right, let's, let's, let's—

Alex Light 0:49:25 Yeah, I would love that.

Natalie Cassidy 0:49:26 All right, I think we should. I think it would be really, really good. Sorry everybody, as usual, going off piece.

Alex Light 0:49:33 Also have to tell you that I loved Alley Cats. You were in it, weren't you? Oh yes, I was. I absolutely loved it. Do you know what, it was funny because I said to my husband, we should put it on with our toddler as well because he can watch the animation. You know, the animation will keep him occupied, and then, you know, we can watch it for us. And 20 seconds in, I was like, let's turn this off.

Natalie Cassidy 0:49:54 It was definitely, definitely not for children.

Alex Light 0:49:59 Um, it's not for children.

Natalie Cassidy 0:50:01 My 10-year-old said, look, Mummy, oh, you're in it and I want to watch it. And I do allow my 10-year-old to watch, but, you know, people roll their eyes at me. But she does, she watches Gavin and Stacey, she'll watch Here We Go, she watches Friday Night Dinner, which has a few sexual references in it and a bit of swearing. But I don't mind it because she loves her comedy, which I love, so it's fine. But I said, Joni. She said, but you know, yeah, you let me watch. I said, no, no, no, you're not watching Ricky Gervais comedies. Not yet. Definitely not.

Alex Light 0:50:30 Give me a few years. Well, it might explain why my son, I picked him up from nursery the other day, and the nursery guy said, oh, I've got a— we've got a problem because every time he drops something, he says, Brilliant. And I was like, I have no— there's like no excuse, it's me. I've got a potty mouth, so does my husband. So—

Natalie Cassidy 0:50:51 Well, there you go. That's it. It's your language.

Alex Light 0:50:54 As long as he's a kind and nice person, I don't care what he said. I don't care if you're using swear words.

Natalie Cassidy 0:50:58 Absolutely. I'm totally with you. But I do say, look, just indoors. You don't, don't need to do it outside.

Alex Light 0:51:04 Yeah, yeah, exactly. Definitely not nursery. I can't, I can't— you can't be thrown out, please, please. I need the child— I need childcare.

Natalie Cassidy 0:51:12 Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you, Alex. And everybody at home, I hope you've really enjoyed this episode. 0777 88 20 19 19. I am absolutely certain that I shall get many, many messages about this one, and I shall pick up on them all very, very soon. Enjoy your day, enjoy the rest of your weeks, and Alex, I'll speak to you very soon, I hope.

Alex Light 0:51:37 Thanks so much, Natalie.

Natalie Cassidy 0:51:39 Thanks. See ya.