EP262: Linny & Roro – Family bonds

Maria 0:02:40 Mom, Mama, I love you. Mama, I care.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:06 You're my friend.

Maria 0:03:07 Do you remember we did that? That was Mama's day.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:12 Loving me and loving me. It was quite good actually.

Speaker G 0:03:15 We've got that.

Maria 0:03:16 We could put that on paper. Yeah, we should need to put that up now.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:19 That's a good idea.

Maria 0:03:22 You used to be my only enemy and never let me be free.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:25 Oh yeah.

Maria 0:03:25 Catch me in places that I knew I shouldn't be. Oh, okay.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:29 And every other day she crossed the line. She didn't mean to be selfish. Oh my God. I never thought you would become the friend I never had. It's very true. The words are very true.

Maria 0:03:39 We used to, Mother's Day, we used to go into Mum's room with a tray, like flowers in it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:44 Yeah.

Maria 0:03:45 Breakfast in bed, and I can't remember what it was, playing that in the background, didn't we?

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:49 Oh, that's lovely. And I bet you thought, don't spill the tray, don't spill the tray.

Speaker G 0:03:55 Mind my quilt, mind my carpet.

Natalie Cassidy 0:03:56 Hope everybody's very good listening today. We've mixed it up today. We have RoRo and Aunty Lynne together. I said that at work today.

Maria 0:04:06 I said, we're doing a mashup tonight. They went, oh, what? I went, well, that's what Natalie said.

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:10 Is that wrong?

Maria 0:04:14 It's right, innit? Yeah, just weird.

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:16 Mashing it up.

Maria 0:04:17 That reminds me of something. Oh, did Liza used to say— I dunno.

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:22 No, James used to say mush.

Maria 0:04:24 Oh, is that what it is?

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:25 I think so.

Maria 0:04:26 Why? For what?

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:27 Can't remember.

Maria 0:04:28 Yeah, we are bringing the different pods together.

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:33 That's very good. Well, we basically got a gap.

Maria 0:04:35 Ellie's the one, they got a gap and they've let me in.

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:39 No, it's nice.

Lynne 0:04:40 No, it's lovely.

Maria 0:04:41 But we have been talking about it.

Lynne 0:04:42 Yeah, we've been itching to do this threesome, haven't we?

Natalie Cassidy 0:04:46 Very good. Well, Jesus, calm down.

Lynne 0:04:49 I mean, and this is why I do my own pod with my sister-in-law.

Maria 0:04:54 Are you gonna— this is gonna be a different pace, Mother. Are you strapped in? You ready?

Lynne 0:05:00 Oh, don't you worry, dear. I'm well and truly strapped in. Don't you be worried.

Maria 0:05:06 It'll be good practice for the lives, to be fair.

Lynne 0:05:09 Yeah, that's a bit daunting 'cause I feel like it's been 8 years.

Maria 0:05:12 When was the last one?

Lynne 0:05:14 This year? Yes. Early part?

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:16 Hartford, no?

Lynne 0:05:17 Was that the last one?

Maria 0:05:18 Yeah, yeah, yeah. May, to be fair. May bank holiday. Oh God, it seems like ages ago.

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:21 Yeah, it's been a while. Yeah. But no, it'll be good.

Lynne 0:05:24 Yeah, it feels like, gosh, the first one's gonna be a bit daunting, and yet that's the one that's local and everyone we know's coming too.

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:30 No, it'll be fine. I say, don't worry about it. They're all the same. Just gotta go out and chat. People just wanna hear us, which is lovely. So I put a message out today, 'cause obviously mum and daughter sitting here, I thought we could do one about mum and daughters. We haven't gotta sit and talk about my dead mum 'cause that's, you know, by the by, innit?

Maria 0:05:48 No, we can't do that again.

Lynne 0:05:49 Well, talk about your mum.

Natalie Cassidy 0:05:51 Yeah.

Maria 0:05:52 Both of you always talking about 'em. I mean, I mean, I would like to talk about—

Lynne 0:05:58 So when I die, you won't talk about me?

Maria 0:06:01 Yeah, of course.

Lynne 0:06:02 Gotta keep the memory alive.

Maria 0:06:03 No, you do. It's true. But we never met your mum.

Lynne 0:06:06 Oh, I'm so sorry. I mean, again, very inconsiderate of her to pass at the age of 48, 49. Bless her heart. No, a shame. But that's why it's good to talk about people, isn't it? Keep them in everyone's memory. It's lovely.

Natalie Cassidy 0:06:21 It is lovely.

Maria 0:06:22 I'm in a grief pod. Bring it out.

Lynne 0:06:26 You wanted to do a grief pod.

Maria 0:06:27 No, I would love to, but not today. No. But we can, we can touch on grief. What is mad though?

Lynne 0:06:33 What's mad?

Maria 0:06:33 I know it's like, like it's life, isn't it? It just happens. Obviously didn't meet my nan and your, like my, your mum. But I've met 2 of my great nans. That's mad.

Lynne 0:06:45 2 of your great nans?

Maria 0:06:47 Yeah. Nanny Doll and Nanny Liz.

Natalie Cassidy 0:06:49 Yes.

Lynne 0:06:49 Yeah.

Maria 0:06:50 That's mad, isn't it? Yeah.

Lynne 0:06:53 Well, yeah.

Maria 0:06:53 I mean, no one on your side, no?

Lynne 0:06:55 No, no one on my side. Well, you met my, your nonno, your granddad. I know. Nanny Doll.

Maria 0:07:00 Of course I did. I always used to go to her flat.

Lynne 0:07:02 Yeah, Nanny Doll died. Come on, play dominoes.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:05 Oh yeah, I was 8 when she died. Yeah, Nanny Doll. So you would've been 5.

Lynne 0:07:09 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you remember.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:11 I love Nanny Dove's flat.

Maria 0:07:13 Yeah.

Lynne 0:07:13 Yeah, I remember that.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:14 I remember, I loved it.

Lynne 0:07:15 I remember having a boxing day up there.

Maria 0:07:17 Oh really?

Lynne 0:07:17 Yeah, we all went.

Maria 0:07:18 I just remember it being lots of print. No, is that just, I dunno, I just remember it being a bit busy, but it was a flat, I guess.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:26 Yes.

Lynne 0:07:26 And a nanny's flat, so they are like that.

Maria 0:07:28 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:29 She always had her knitting.

Lynne 0:07:30 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:31 She always had a little whiskey and ginger ale.

Lynne 0:07:34 I've got her, What do you call it? Where you keep all your cottons and needles and—

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:40 A bag?

Lynne 0:07:41 No, it's like a massive, but it's big, big basket.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:44 Oh, I know what you mean.

Lynne 0:07:45 With all, your mum gave it to me, which was Nanny. Yeah, she said, yeah, with all her, and a dish of hers.

Natalie Cassidy 0:07:50 Aw.

Lynne 0:07:51 So I've still got all her needles, her cotton threads, her patterns. Oh, that's lovely. Yeah.

Maria 0:07:57 What, Nan gave that to you?

Lynne 0:07:59 Yeah.

Maria 0:08:00 What, she thought you were gonna do it?

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:01 Your mum can sew.

Lynne 0:08:02 I can sew.

Maria 0:08:04 When do you sew?

Lynne 0:08:05 When I have to sew your stuff.

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:08 Yeah, and how about when you did the, what did you do?

Lynne 0:08:10 I don't know.

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:11 Put some bows on something, Christmas time.

Lynne 0:08:13 Yeah, all the—

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:15 Stockings.

Lynne 0:08:16 No.

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:16 The 15 stockings that you had.

Lynne 0:08:20 No, it was the christening booties that I had to stitch. The letter R, the letter A. You did a cracking job. Thank you. Well, there you go. Excellent. So anyway, yeah. Lovely thing to, yeah, I've got that.

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:35 That's lovely.

Lynne 0:08:36 But yeah, ironically you got to meet great-grandparents, but you didn't get to meet grandparents.

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:41 Which is mad 'cause I never met a granddad.

Maria 0:08:43 No.

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:45 And then I had nans for a little while, but not long. Funny, innit?

Maria 0:08:49 It is funny.

Lynne 0:08:50 Oh, it's hilarious.

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:51 No, it just is what it is. I always say that about the girls. We've said it before. We don't need to repeat ourselves. Yeah, I love that.

Maria 0:08:57 But yeah, it's, I've got loads of women in their lives Haven't they?

Natalie Cassidy 0:08:59 It, you get, gain different things in life. Mm-hmm. Things you haven't got, you get other stuff. Right. Let's have a listen to this.

Speaker I 0:09:07 It's funny how you say today about mothers and daughters. Today is my daughter's 8th birthday, my last born of 5, Josie Jo. She's 8 today and also first day of school, first day of year 3. Very happy for her. But yes, I have 2 daughters. They're very different. One's 21 and one is 8. And it gets harder as they get older, not easier. Why can't they just stay little babies? But yeah, and I have a sister, and I have a— obviously have a mother, and we're really, really close. And I hope that my kids are like that with me when I'm older, because I love them to bits.

Lynne 0:09:45 Oh, that's a lovely message.

Natalie Cassidy 0:09:49 Happy birthday.

Lynne 0:09:49 Yeah, yeah, happy birthday. Lovely to hear when people say, Love my, you know, not everyone has that sort of relationship with a parent, do they? Absolutely. Yeah, I was thinking about this earlier. When people say, I love my mum, she was my everything. Oh, I love my nan, that relationship. I loved my nan so much. Oh, you think, oh, that's so special.

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:09 Yeah, really is.

Lynne 0:10:10 It's so special.

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:12 21 and 8 though.

Lynne 0:10:13 Yeah, that's a gap.

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:15 I mean, it's not a major, I mean, there's 18 years between me and David. Yeah, true. But it's still quite a large gap. Obviously she had 5, so there's probably a few boys in between.

Lynne 0:10:25 I mean, absolutely. Yeah, of course there is.

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:27 But to be doing 8 and then having a 21 as well, it's, gosh, must be quite strange.

Maria 0:10:31 I mean, girls at this age, well, she's 8, Ruby's 5, and I'm, you know, having to have conversations about what she's wearing.

Lynne 0:10:39 Nah, that's, that is, she's a bit of an anomaly, our Rubes.

Maria 0:10:43 Is she though?

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:44 Yes.

Lynne 0:10:45 Do you think, do you not think there's other 5-year-olds?

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:49 She's— I'm not saying there isn't, but she is. But my children were not like that at 5. No, not even Eliza.

Lynne 0:10:54 Not even Eliza. No.

Natalie Cassidy 0:10:55 They're 5, they watch the telly.

Lynne 0:10:57 Joanie, I know Joanie's not like it now. She's 10.

Natalie Cassidy 0:11:00 That's what I'm— yeah. She's, she's amazing.

Lynne 0:11:04 Ruby, Ruby looks you up and down when you walk in. She does the whole looks you up and down. She does. Check out what you're wearing. Well, she just sort of looks.

Natalie Cassidy 0:11:10 Does the side eye. What are you looking at? Yeah. She's sort of like, hmm. She's sort of judging your top.

Maria 0:11:15 Well, it was funny 'cause my, couple of my best friends, we were sending each other all the school photos today, weren't we? One of them, her third, was wearing like joggers. She said she will not wear a dress.

Lynne 0:11:24 To school?

Maria 0:11:25 Yep, she wouldn't wear a dress, she just wants to wear joggers.

Lynne 0:11:27 Is she allowed?

Maria 0:11:28 Well, yeah, obviously. And then—

Lynne 0:11:30 Who's that?

Maria 0:11:32 Doesn't matter. Okay. And then the— and then my other friend was like, what it took to get my one in a dress. And I said, well, I have it the other way around. All she does is want to wear dresses, so we have fights. Like, she put on a nice pair of shorts. You're going to soft play, she put on some shorts or something. It's just, they're funny, aren't they? How they—

Lynne 0:11:52 Just how they— why just— That, that age.

Maria 0:11:54 How they're wired and what, how they think.

Natalie Cassidy 0:11:55 Well, they just like what they like. I did have the clothes thing a bit with Eliza. Eliza. Fussy. Yeah. And even now, me and Joni went out yesterday before going back to school. When we went to Bishop Stortford, we went to H&M, went to Marks Spencer's. She just hasn't got any autumnal bits. No clothes at all, if I'm honest, that fit. But little tops that are nice, and she'll put her hand up the t-shirt and rub the design. You know, if there's a motif, she'll rub it. She'll go, no, Don't want it where it's gonna scratch up. It's gonna aggravate her. She wants soft things. I said, but something that's a comfort thing.

Maria 0:12:27 Yeah. Yeah. Whereas Ruby's like, no, that's ugly. Yeah. It's more fashion thing, isn't it? That's so rude.

Lynne 0:12:32 But at her age, she so understands fashion.

Maria 0:12:36 I wonder where she gets it from.

Lynne 0:12:37 Yeah, I wonder. I wonder.

Natalie Cassidy 0:12:39 Auntie Nat Nat maybe. But, um, probably Nonna actually.

Maria 0:12:46 Yeah, that's it. As I say to her, who's the most fashion in the family? She says, Nonna. I'm like, oh, perfect.

Lynne 0:12:50 I love that.

Maria 0:12:51 But no, like, we've always been really close, haven't we?

Lynne 0:12:55 Yeah.

Maria 0:12:55 Obviously you go through a stage where—

Lynne 0:12:57 I don't really remember that stage.

Maria 0:12:59 You're not? But no, you always— I think it's a natural— you always go through a stage where you've got your friends, you tell them, you don't tell your mum as much. Yeah, that's— I always think we've had quite an honest relationship.

Lynne 0:13:08 And I do think there are some things you don't—

Maria 0:13:11 You shouldn't. Tell your parents.

Lynne 0:13:13 It is for your friend or for, I don't know, an auntie that you might be close to more. Do you know what I mean?

Natalie Cassidy 0:13:18 Yes, yes.

Lynne 0:13:19 But Yeah, no, I think our bond, we're so alike in so many ways. We think alike, it's quite frightening. We say the same things at the same time a lot. And it's not like we see each other every day and talk to each other every day.

Maria 0:13:33 Yeah, like sometimes me and Mum will have a, or we'll be talking to someone and they'll go, your mum said that. And I think they think that we've spoken about it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:13:41 Yes.

Maria 0:13:41 And then we're just repeating what each other says. And I'm like, I haven't even spoken to Mum. And we will say— Our opinions are very aligned. The way we see things. Yeah. Yeah. Very much.

Lynne 0:13:49 much so, but frighteningly so.

Maria 0:13:55 And like, obviously I've got you, I've got Elia, and you're all my best friends. I've got Annalisa, I've got my best friends, but I still dunno. I feel like I could tell you anything.

Natalie Cassidy 0:14:04 Mm-hmm.

Maria 0:14:06 And if you really need—

Lynne 0:14:07 And if you needed genuine advice, like honest advice, you would do.

Maria 0:14:11 I would, I would. But I know that. Yeah.

Lynne 0:14:14 And even if Maria says, well, no, that's ridiculous, like she does. Yeah, yeah. No, that's ridiculous. I just wouldn't do that. then following days, she'll be doing it. Couple of days later. Yeah. 'Cause ultimately, your mum's only gonna ever say the right thing. I know, but not all mums—

Natalie Cassidy 0:14:29 But some mums don't have that, yeah. Not all mums do. See, I thought— We are only human beings. Yeah. It doesn't mean you can have a child and your bond is strong. Some people just don't get on.

Maria 0:14:39 Yeah, or your opinions, or they're very different. Yeah. We are just very alike. Yeah. Which again, sometimes that could actually, you could clash. Yeah. Don't get me wrong, we do sometimes have a bit of a snap at each other. But I think it's— Very rarely. Very rarely. But sometimes I think it's because We're so—

Lynne 0:14:53 you're so alive.

Natalie Cassidy 0:14:54 Yeah. Yeah.

Maria 0:14:54 Or like if Mum says to me— Or just 'cause you're crazy and hormonal.

Lynne 0:14:58 Maybe it's that. It's true though. It's true. Like when you write things.

Maria 0:15:06 No, when you write things.

Lynne 0:15:08 No, when you, you write things.

Maria 0:15:09 Mum's so blunt.

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:10 So, um, everybody, it's the end of the pod. It's only 13 minutes today. I hope you've enjoyed yourself before we get the boxing gloves on.

Maria 0:15:17 No, Mum's quite blunt. No, you're— Isn't she though? She doesn't love kisses and stuff on texts. Am I blunt? Sometimes that can come across.

Lynne 0:15:24 No, but if I am, it's because I'm at work and I'm super busy. Who's blunt?

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:28 Sorry, no.

Lynne 0:15:29 Who's blunt? Is there— is this being recorded? Who's blunt?

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:33 No, no, what I mean is by that, I know what mood Maria's in by her texts.

Lynne 0:15:37 Texts, yeah, no, I know.

Maria 0:15:38 Not always. Sometimes I'm busy.

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:40 Maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true.

Lynne 0:15:42 What have I just said?

Maria 0:15:43 Okay, well, I'm like you then, aren't I?

Natalie Cassidy 0:15:44 Yeah, exactly the same.

Lynne 0:15:47 Like, Elia today has messaged me, And that's because I am very, I'm very one of those people that I answer straight away the message. I don't, you don't wait 3 days to hear back from me. No. You know, I always comment. I check in on the girls every day.

Lynne 0:16:01 So she'd sent this video of the baby in the pool. Was it last night or this morning? I can't remember. This morning, I think. And then I've seen it and just glanced over it and probably put a love heart or something.

Lynne 0:16:10 But that was it, 'cause I'm rushing to get to work and I've got all sorts going on. And then today I got a message from her, separate, a private message, not in a group chat. Saying, Mum, did you see the video? You didn't say, you didn't comment. And then I've had to watch the whole video 'cause obviously I've missed something on this video.

Lynne 0:16:25 I won't share with you what was in the video. And yeah, so again, it's lovely 'cause it matters.

Natalie Cassidy 0:16:32 Of course it does. It matters.

Lynne 0:16:34 And I, yeah, I just, for me, I've said this many a time, I don't know if it stems from losing my mum at the age I did, but there is nothing, I wouldn't do for all 3 of them, all of you, but yeah, the girls. But I did have this illusion when I carried Maria. I always remember thinking, oh my God, if I have a little girl, we're gonna be able to go shopping together. It's just gonna be so amazing. 'Cause I never got to do that with my mum. Yeah, of course. Fucking can't drag her anywhere with me.

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:02 That's really untrue.

Lynne 0:17:03 It's true. 'Cause you don't shop. You don't like shop. You do it online.

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:06 I do, but, and you're so indecisive.

Lynne 0:17:07 No, but that's what I'm saying. Painful. So all this, all this—

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:10 You're saying that. Oh my goodness me.

Maria 0:17:12 No, actually, she'll go. But again, when we go shopping, we are similar.

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:16 Yeah. We're like, like, thank you.

Maria 0:17:18 So like us going shopping with you and then— Yeah. No, it's mental.

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:22 You can't do it. No. You've gotta take Joni with you.

Lynne 0:17:24 Why?

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:24 Oh no. Yes, you do.

Maria 0:17:25 So I did decide to.

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:26 Oh.

Lynne 0:17:27 Well, who's she like? You two. Oh, okay.

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:29 Standing there.

Lynne 0:17:30 Looking at it, deliberating.

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:32 Should I get the pink? Should I get the blue? She fucking get both. She get a jumper. I know. I was just gonna say— She pick a jumper.

Lynne 0:17:36 And do you know why that is? Because Joni's like us when it comes to money. Yes. Yeah. That's true. No, she is. She cares. Just a bit more cautious than me.

Natalie Cassidy 0:17:44 No, but also she does. No, she cares. And she'll say, and it's mine. She'll say, no, what one shall I get? 'Cause I don't want you to spend too much. She'll say that.

Maria 0:17:52 But it is mad. I was buying a parasol for the garden, which I'm glad I bought and it's never fucking gone up. I only got it the other day. You can keep that now. No, I know, I know. But I text her, I'm like, do you like this one? It is mad. I don't even realise I'm doing it sometimes.

Lynne 0:18:06 I love that.

Maria 0:18:08 No, I know, it's great. We're very, very lucky. I hope I've got that with Ruby.

Lynne 0:18:12 Yeah.

Maria 0:18:12 I know your kids are your kids, but I'm always like, we're best friends. Do you tell her? Yeah, we'll be best friends forever. Oh, 'cause I, look, I know she's gonna grow up, have her friends and do her thing, but I always want her to be able to tell me anything. Yes. Come to me.

Natalie Cassidy 0:18:27 Yes.

Lynne 0:18:27 She won't tell you everything. No. Would it be normal?

Maria 0:18:29 But I want her to know that she won't be too stupid. No, but if she was, and also if she needs help or— Yeah.

Lynne 0:18:34 Of course. You know, it's good.

Natalie Cassidy 0:18:36 I never had that.

Lynne 0:18:37 No. No.

Natalie Cassidy 0:18:38 I never had it that. I couldn't tell my mum anything.

Maria 0:18:40 It was different, it was different, wasn't it?

Natalie Cassidy 0:18:42 Well, they were different. Yeah. Yeah. They did not know anything really about my life from the age of 14.

Maria 0:18:47 But times are so different now, aren't they, as well? And I think relationships, I dunno, I think there's a lot of people now that if you're close to your mum, it's— Well, me and Eliza are very, very close.

Natalie Cassidy 0:18:59 Yeah. And I'd say now more than ever, again, they shouldn't tell you everything. They've got friends, they've got family. No. If she's, you know, if there's certain things— If the shit hit the fan. She, she knows she can come to me.

Lynne 0:19:11 Technical expression, that is, people.

Natalie Cassidy 0:19:13 And I, and I say this, I always use you as an example or Sharon as an example and say there is no judgement.

Maria 0:19:20 No.

Natalie Cassidy 0:19:20 Not on when it's important stuff. No, no. Yes, I can have a go at you about homework or making your bed. But as you say, when the shit hits the fan. I need to say, there's still gotta be boundaries.

Maria 0:19:29 At the end of the day, if the shit hit the fan and she come to you and you don't agree with it, doesn't mean you're not gonna reprimand her. Absolutely. There's never any joke. You would, it's, you, that's your kid at the end of the day. You'd get through anything. Even now. Unconditional love. When it's gone crazy as a cow. I was like, last night she would not go to bed. She was driving me insane. She was doing fake crying, then like laughing at me. I thought, oh my God, I'm actually gonna throw you out the window.

Lynne 0:19:50 Cry.

Maria 0:19:50 And then, you know, it was quarter past 10 and every time she fell asleep, I walked up and then I heard moo. I was like, oh. And then you're laying there like calm. This is lovely. You're not gonna get to do this one day. And then she fell asleep and I looked at her and I was like, oh, you're so beautiful.

Lynne 0:20:04 Yeah.

Maria 0:20:05 This morning it was fine, but I could have, Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:08 Which only didn't go off well last night, again. They were excited. No, yeah.

Maria 0:20:12 You'd think it was Christmas, they were so excited.

Lynne 0:20:14 Well, it's good they were excited and not like anxious. No, they were good.

Maria 0:20:17 No, I must say today, there was quite a few, I've never seen it before, quite a few children upset and needing to leave. Oh, really? Yeah, it's hard. It's sort of change.

Lynne 0:20:26 Saw a few of the neighbours taking photographs of their children outside in their uniform. Yeah. Oh, look.

Maria 0:20:32 Must be milestones, isn't it?

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:33 It is.

Maria 0:20:34 Yeah, it really is.

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:35 It really feels like a new year as well. I feel like September should be the new year.

Maria 0:20:39 We've said this before, haven't we?

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:40 Well, I think I've always said April. April. 'Cause of spring.

Lynne 0:20:43 All right. Actually, September feels like— September, it's the weather change.

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:46 Just a new year. Start school year. School year.

Lynne 0:20:49 Yeah. Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:50 It's funny, innit?

Maria 0:20:50 And again, it's mad, isn't it? Because my kids have literally just turned, Alfie's just turned 7. They're young. And like that little girl's just started year 3, like Alfie, but she's 8.

Natalie Cassidy 0:20:59 Yes. Well, you've got young ones, haven't you?

Maria 0:21:01 Yeah.

Lynne 0:21:01 So young ones in there.

Maria 0:21:02 So like a lot of his friends are turning 8 in the next couple of months. Oh, lots and lots of them. I can't believe it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:21:06 Joni's friends will be 11. Yeah. Yeah. And she's not gonna be She's August, isn't she? So she's the youngest. She's probably the youngest.

Lynne 0:21:13 Yeah, she is.

Natalie Cassidy 0:21:15 Yeah. Funny old game.

Maria 0:21:16 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:21:18 Yeah. But I do love having girls.

Maria 0:21:20 Yeah. I never wanted girls.

Natalie Cassidy 0:21:22 No.

Maria 0:21:23 Was not bothered at all. But now I'm so glad.

Lynne 0:21:27 Seeing as a mum, I just think, and I obviously—

Maria 0:21:30 I was just a bit scared, Mum.

Lynne 0:21:32 Was you?

Maria 0:21:32 Which I think is, is, there's reasons I can see why I'm scared. Girls are hard. Yeah. They're hard. Boys are simpler.

Lynne 0:21:39 I used to have a cousin who had 2 sons, and she used to always say— she was quite strict— she used to always say, I wasn't blessed with daughters for that reason, because I think I would have been the mother from hell, because I would have been so strict. Because she was strict enough with the boys.

Natalie Cassidy 0:21:56 Yeah.

Lynne 0:21:56 So imagine a girl, and then seeing other girls, what they do, or maybe even what I was like, wanting to go out, do things. She was a bit older than me, and she tried to be a bit of a mother figure, and she just couldn't cope with it.

Maria 0:22:06 Yeah.

Lynne 0:22:07 The fact that, you know, we wanted a life and go out and boyfriends and, you know, just do, have a drink, do just normal stuff. She was like, oh God, no. Thank God I haven't got a girl.

Maria 0:22:16 But now I actually see it the other way. I am more fearful of Alfie having a girlfriend.

Lynne 0:22:22 Oh.

Maria 0:22:22 Taking them away. You drop, like, yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:22:25 But boys.

Maria 0:22:26 Oh.

Natalie Cassidy 0:22:26 Yeah. Again, you've been very lucky with Dominic. He's round the corner.

Lynne 0:22:30 He met someone we know. That you get on with, that you know. She's like definitely another daughter. Yeah. Without shadow of a doubt. I think I speak to Annalisa more than I speak to Yeah. But yeah, we got very, very—

Natalie Cassidy 0:22:43 But it is the, you know, that is a usual natural thing that, you know, look at Tony and David. Not saying they didn't see Mum, but you—

Maria 0:22:53 Yeah.

Lynne 0:22:53 Because you gravitate to your wife's—

Natalie Cassidy 0:22:56 And for me, that's, you know, look at Mark. He met me and moved his whole life to me.

Lynne 0:23:01 Yeah.

Maria 0:23:02 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:23:02 I don't feel women do that for men. Maybe they do. Again, I'm sure they will. I was having this conversation the other day. Yeah. I'm sure they do. But I do think it's— I think the majority Yeah. Well, I think if you've got a family, if you've got a family network, you won't leave them.

Lynne 0:23:15 How hard must that be for mums and their sons?

Natalie Cassidy 0:23:18 Hard.

Maria 0:23:19 Yeah. Well, it's like there's a little cottage at the end of my road, and Alfie's noticed the other day, it's called Fox Cottage. So he obviously loves foxes. He's got his little fox comfort, and he says, Mummy, I wanna buy that one day so I can be around the corner. I said, perfect. I'll buy it for you, that's fine.

Lynne 0:23:36 But I think he's, I think Alfie is gonna be that little sensitive soul. Oh, I think he will. I hope so.

Maria 0:23:43 Well, yeah, I mean, if you look at his dad's traits and they're all like that.

Lynne 0:23:48 Yeah, they're very attentive of their mum. Yeah, they care. Love their mum, don't they? Yeah, and I just think Alfie will be that person. You can just see it in him.

Natalie Cassidy 0:23:57 But also, we all, again, I do the same. I think, oh, there's a cottage up there, I could buy that. Joni could be there a lot. Again, it's quite selfish because if they were to get a fantastic opportunity—

Maria 0:24:08 You just don't know, do you?

Natalie Cassidy 0:24:09 You do have to take the You've come opportunity. around to that idea. I'm even coming, you know, if Eliza were to get a job opportunity and go to America for 6 months, how can you be annoyed?

Maria 0:24:17 Go travelling?

Natalie Cassidy 0:24:18 Well, whatever. You've just gotta go.

Maria 0:24:20 Mum was buzzing when I did that. Yeah. I mean, anyone would've thought that I'd like told her I'd murdered someone.

Lynne 0:24:25 Yeah, but I think it was because I didn't really know the girls she went with either. She wasn't like, it wasn't like it was Rosanna or Carly. Yeah. Girls that had grown up with us.

Maria 0:24:34 You were fuming, weren't you?

Lynne 0:24:35 I just was like a bit, yeah. I would be. Staying in touch wasn't like it is now. No. I mean, obviously the girls were bril— her friends were brilliant 'cause they put me on Facebook and they said, you'll be able to follow her journey with her, which was actually a lifesaver. But you say that, I was pretty devastated when you come back a month earlier.

Maria 0:24:52 I was like, surprise! They just all looked at me and I was like, she did it. And Lix and Dom were like, for fuck's sake, we were using her room.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:07 Well, I've got a message here that I want to send. She'd like to keep it anonymous. So, oh, here we go.

Maria 0:28:12 Spicy.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:14 Not particularly. It's just a nice message. Hey ladies, I know you hear it all the time, but thank you for all the time you take out of your hectic lives, especially Auntie Lynnie. What's that mean? We're all busy. Oh, thanks. I'm runnin' off my feet here.

Maria 0:28:27 Oh yeah.

Lynne 0:28:28 What have you done today?

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:30 Oh, the washing again. It's so boring.

Maria 0:28:32 I mean.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:34 Loads of it. Loads of it. Especially Auntie Lynnie, to give us these podcasts.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:39 They really do make a real difference. But on the topic of mums, I have a question. Just for some background, I'm 27 and my mum had me when she was 17. Wow. We've always had such a strong bond and I genuinely love the relationship we have.

Natalie Cassidy 0:28:53 However, in recent years, I've started to realise that our relationship is more like a friendship in some ways. I wouldn't wanna change how close we are, but I'm also beginning to realise that in certain respects, I've become more of the mum, financially, emotionally, and even when it comes to making decisions. Something she said recently has really stuck with me. She said something along the lines of, I see you as my friend now. I don't feel responsible anymore.

Natalie Cassidy 0:29:19 It really made me think about our relationship and how it's changed over the years. I guess my question is, am I a bad daughter for feeling like I've missed out on certain aspects of being a daughter because I had such a young mum? I love her, and I'm so grateful for the relationship we have. So I feel guilty even admitting that I sometimes feel like I've had to take on a role that perhaps wasn't mine to have.

Lynne 0:29:40 No, you shouldn't. You're not a bad daughter. Absolutely not.

Natalie Cassidy 0:29:45 No.

Lynne 0:29:45 See, again, I'm a bit old school here. And again, I'm generalising because people's circumstances are different. People find themselves in situations where they've had children and later on in life, life hasn't gone as it should have. And financially, they're in dire straits or not where they thought they would be. And then they rely on their children to financially support them, whether that's spending money, financially, physically, mentally, emotionally. I'm a bit old school. I'm a bit— I chose to have children and I will take care of them.

Maria 0:30:20 No, but some people just can't. No. They can't physically do it, mentally do it, or— And I'm not criticising.

Lynne 0:30:25 This isn't a criticism, honestly. But for me, I don't wanna be a burden to you. I mean, I know there might come a day.

Maria 0:30:32 I bet if I went and won like the EuroMillions, You'd be proper sorted. Imagine, loads of famous people do, don't they? You hear it, they become famous, like singers, they get loads of money and they buy their parents houses or their mum a house. But I wouldn't expect—

Lynne 0:30:47 I wouldn't know, I wouldn't expect you to say, Mum, I'll pay for your TV licence. No, but some kids do feel like— I'll top up your heating bill.

Maria 0:30:55 Some kids feel like, they've looked after me my whole life.

Lynne 0:30:57 Yeah, like I said in my speech, make sure you stick me in a fine 5-star care home because I've looked after you for 40 years.

Natalie Cassidy 0:31:04 But I think you— I know what you're saying. I do know.

Lynne 0:31:06 I know what you're saying. I know, I remember your mum and dad for Nanny Doll. They would help her with bills and stuff. Yeah, she was an elderly lady on her own, lost her husband. I totally get that.

Maria 0:31:20 And it's not even just the financial side of things, which must be hard, but even— and obviously the age gap isn't big at all, but But you still want your mum to be your mum. I think you still—

Lynne 0:31:32 Absolutely. I'd always—

Maria 0:31:32 But you're not best, like, you're not, of course you're best friends, but you're not just friends. It's your mum. You should feel like that vulnerability and be able to, yeah, you shouldn't feel completely you're then responsible for them. That must be hard. Yeah, really hard.

Natalie Cassidy 0:31:44 What I would say to this person is you're so lucky to have a young mum.

Lynne 0:31:49 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:31:50 And again, a completely different way of looking at it.

Lynne 0:31:53 But interesting because she is a young mum. It's interesting how her mum now has sort of become her child. I wonder why that's happened. Maybe she's on her own, doesn't have a partner, so she feels she needs that support and she's leaning on her daughter.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:06 Maybe.

Lynne 0:32:07 For that support.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:08 But she still had her for a long time.

Lynne 0:32:11 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:12 That's what I think of straight away. Oh, sweet.

Lynne 0:32:14 We've been cheated of that relationship. We've been cheated of not having experiencing things with our parents, my mum, that we should have experienced.

Maria 0:32:25 But also, I'm 40.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:27 Yes. Are you? Are you?

Maria 0:32:30 Wow. No, but I'm fucking out.

Lynne 0:32:31 Such a good one. You could have told her. No. I mean, how did that slip through?

Maria 0:32:34 No, but I mean, as a 40-year-old woman who has her own home and 2 children, I still feel looked after.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:42 Yes.

Maria 0:32:42 Do you know what I mean?

Lynne 0:32:43 And I, at 40, didn't.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:46 No, of course not.

Lynne 0:32:47 I was the mum of the family. My own children, my brothers, my dad, everything.

Natalie Cassidy 0:32:52 I don't ever feel really looked after.

Lynne 0:32:54 No, you've always been. No, but you have.

Maria 0:32:55 But I mean, in the sense that that if, yeah, something, if I did need some money, I know Mum and Dad would help me out.

Lynne 0:33:01 You did need the ironing. Yeah.

Maria 0:33:02 If I did need some ironing, Mum would come out. Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:04 When she says, oh, I'm just gonna go around and just have a cleanup, I think, oh, that's excellent.

Lynne 0:33:08 Yeah. See, because you've never had it. No. And I've never had that. I can't imagine, I can't imagine my mum coming home from work. Do you know when I experienced it? When your mum and dad lived with us for a little while in between one of them moves.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:24 Moves. Yep.

Lynne 0:33:26 And I remember coming home and the house wasn't done as it is now. It was when we first— and I remember coming home and obviously your mum felt she was a proud woman, wasn't she? Yeah. She loved her own home and stuff. And she must have felt mortified that she was living with us and so on and so forth. And I'm not that it was an issue 'cause it wasn't. And I remember coming home and all the ironing was all piled up on my bed, all done. That's the first time I— that was like— Yeah. That was the first time I felt, oh, this is really nice.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:55 Yeah.

Lynne 0:33:56 'Cause I've never had it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:33:57 No.

Lynne 0:33:58 So yeah, you're, you're lucky.

Maria 0:34:00 You don't do it much anymore though, do you?

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:01 I would imagine. I would love to know. I just ignore that comment. I would love to know this though. 07788 201919. Us saying that, I reckon there are people screaming, listening, thinking, how on earth can a 40-year-old woman still get their ironing done?

Maria 0:34:16 No, I don't. I don't.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:18 No, but every now and then your mum will come round and help. I would lie.

Lynne 0:34:20 But you don't ask for it.

Maria 0:34:21 No, very rarely. But you don't ask for it. If mum, if mum takes the kids back to mine on a Thursday.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:26 That's what I mean.

Maria 0:34:27 And there's some ironing, she will put the ironing board up. I'll put the ironing board up. Yeah. You'll try and do it. Cool. Yeah. Or no. Or sometimes this is more of a thing I think now, which I don't expect you to do it. Sometimes I'm like, oh, leave it there.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:38 Yeah.

Maria 0:34:39 Hopefully it gets done. But sometimes I'll like open a drawer and I'm like, fucking hell, she's just rearranged. She's just done the whole drawer. So good.

Natalie Cassidy 0:34:46 She did that to my underneath sink. So good, innit? So good. All cleaned out. Jay Clough's in.

Maria 0:34:51 No, but you say that now, but I tell you now, who was it the other day that said to me, there are— I'm not, I'm not saying everyone, but there are still some kids.

Natalie Cassidy 0:35:01 Yes.

Maria 0:35:01 That, or like the guy, and they'll, he'll live with his girlfriend. Someone told me this the other day. They take all their washing round to their mum's, dump it at their mum's, mum washes and irons it. That does not surprise me. It happens.

Lynne 0:35:15 But does the mum work? Does mum get paid for it?

Maria 0:35:17 I dunno, Mum, but, oh, 'cause it might be a little job.

Lynne 0:35:20 Might be the mum says, oh no.

Maria 0:35:21 No, but I'm saying, but there is more than we think where kids will send their ironing home or—

Natalie Cassidy 0:35:28 Yeah.

Maria 0:35:28 I bet.

Natalie Cassidy 0:35:29 I mean, I'd do it.

Maria 0:35:30 You don't iron it now.

Natalie Cassidy 0:35:32 I've done a bit of ironing today, actually. That ironing that Mark didn't do. He, we did a pod last night and all he did was talk about how he does all the washing and ironing. I mean, the bloke's fucking ironed 6 shirts and suddenly he's, what's her fucking face? Mrs. Hinch.

Speaker M 0:35:48 Fucking funny.

Maria 0:35:50 I thought he was gonna say that the laundrette down the road dot com.

Lynne 0:35:54 Aren't they funny, men? They do something and then it's just like—

Natalie Cassidy 0:35:58 So funny.

Maria 0:35:59 We can't go on to men. No, we can't do that. We'll do that on the next podcast. They just don't think like us, do they? No. Where is my brain? Different animals.

Lynne 0:36:08 That's why women should live with women.

Maria 0:36:10 No, you could— I don't think I could live with another woman.

Natalie Cassidy 0:36:13 You used to in the commune. In the communes, '70s, women and children all together, all mates together.

Lynne 0:36:20 Do you not think you could live with another woman? Could you not live with me? You'd have a clean house, that's for sure.

Maria 0:36:26 Mum, all right, so would you, babes. Like I'm some scrubber.

Lynne 0:36:30 Could you not live with a woman? It depends who it is. Just, but we know we get each other, don't we, women? Yeah, but it depends. Not everything—

Maria 0:36:39 not everyone's like a clean freak like you.

Lynne 0:36:42 I don't mean just about cleanliness.

Natalie Cassidy 0:36:44 Come and live with me if you like.

Lynne 0:36:45 Can you imagine? You know, no football on the telly. We like football.

Natalie Cassidy 0:36:50 I enjoy a bit of football these days.

Lynne 0:36:52 I don't mind the odd bit of football, but the golf, the football, LBC.

Natalie Cassidy 0:36:56 Love LBC. It's on all day.

Lynne 0:36:58 Toilets, toilets not flush.

Natalie Cassidy 0:37:00 Basically, you moving in with me, it's a bit like living with Dave without a penis.

Lynne 0:37:05 Oh God. LBC on in the morning. This is what fans wanna know.

Natalie Cassidy 0:37:16 Just before we continue with some messages, I went for my first walk today for 9 weeks or whatever it's been. Well done. And I went out, it was drizzling. I thought, if I don't go now, I'm not gonna go. Did a lovely hour. Yeah. Did a little bit of jogging, which was awful. Oh dear. A few minutes here and there, but I felt so good after. And I know it's boring and we know that. Came home, I did my kettlebells. Well done. Did some squats, did some arms. Oh, blimey. And had my shower. Absolutely Bob's your uncle, Fanny's your aunt.

Maria 0:37:46 And that'll be it for the next year.

Natalie Cassidy 0:37:47 And I'm done now until about May. So I've got the bones working.

Maria 0:37:53 I really can't get myself to—

Natalie Cassidy 0:37:56 No, I had fun. I feel on top of the world tonight. Does make you feel good.

Lynne 0:38:04 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:38:04 But I've not had a drink since Sunday.

Maria 0:38:06 So Monday.

Lynne 0:38:08 Since Monday? Oh no, Sunday. Sunday. So we're here Sunday.

Maria 0:38:11 Sunday.

Lynne 0:38:11 Oh, good.

Natalie Cassidy 0:38:12 It's good. I mean, it's only Wednesday. Yeah, I know, it's good. No, but it's good for me.

Lynne 0:38:17 No, we know.

Natalie Cassidy 0:38:18 It's very good. Even not having just— I just thought, no, I just don't want— I want my energy up. Yeah. And when we say we're tired, it is that. Oh no, it is having a few drinks of an evening that makes you feel groggy in the morning.

Maria 0:38:31 Well, I was listening to a pod and I can't remember the name of it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:38:33 You just get used to being hungover.

Lynne 0:38:34 Yeah.

Maria 0:38:35 On this pod they were saying about one glass It knocks like 20%. I can't remember what it was. And then you literally, your sleep is just, even though you're asleep, it's just shit sleep.

Lynne 0:38:43 Is it? Yeah. Even with one drink?

Maria 0:38:45 Yeah. Well, it's worse than obviously not having any.

Lynne 0:38:47 But it helps you go to sleep, doesn't it?

Maria 0:38:49 Yeah. But it's, yeah. Even though you feel like sometimes you've passed out, you're not actually having a good sleep. The deep sleep. Yeah. What was it called, that?

Natalie Cassidy 0:38:56 REM sleep. REM sleep. But listen, we're not Stephen Bartlett. We're not, I'm not saying—

Lynne 0:39:00 Oh, she's having a pop at everyone tonight.

Natalie Cassidy 0:39:03 No, I'm just saying people with hormones and this and they wake up And how many sleeps. And I just think, live your life. I think it's a lot. Yeah, it is. A lot. Fucking hell. I've got a fucking thing here, and I've got my gluten and my dairy and what's going in and what's in my veins, and I'm not sure what's going on there. And then the alcohol units and what I've done and how many steps and what I'm doing and my metabolic rate and how many— fucking hell, just get up and—

Lynne 0:39:27 You've been on the run today. Everything.

Natalie Cassidy 0:39:29 No, just everything in moderation. It's a lot. And it— I mean, you keep— and for people who take that shit in, They must feel absolutely wasted.

Maria 0:39:37 It's relentless. And you look at what one post on social media and it's like, eat this, eat that, eat this. And the next one is saying, don't eat that, don't eat this. Yeah. Yeah. What am I doing?

Lynne 0:39:46 Yeah. This is good for you. That's not good for you. Yeah. Yeah. It's so, isn't it? I'm taking mushroom gummies.

Maria 0:39:51 That's what I've started doing. How do you feel on them? Mum, it's fucking been 3 days. What do you mean? Oh, you didn't sleep last night?

Lynne 0:39:57 I started taking them. So I'll have a finger. Don't have it at night.

Maria 0:40:00 I don't know about have it in the morning. Oh, I've forgotten today.

Lynne 0:40:03 'Cause I was, I started taking mine at night thinking they'd help me sleep. It's had the opposite effect. Where's this come from?

Natalie Cassidy 0:40:07 The old mushroom gummies.

Lynne 0:40:08 Gemma at work.

Maria 0:40:09 Oh, Gemma started popping it on my, just every time.

Lynne 0:40:12 And I, I've been taking them as well. On my phone.

Maria 0:40:14 So I thought, fuck it, I'm doing it.

Lynne 0:40:16 But I don't know if they're any good. Are they any good? No, I'm just saying all these things. Who knows? Try stuff.

Natalie Cassidy 0:40:21 My problem is consistency.

Maria 0:40:23 Yeah, exactly.

Natalie Cassidy 0:40:24 I will buy some really expensive vitamins. And it's 3 months' worth. And they say, you've got, you know, you've gotta do a good 3 months.

Maria 0:40:32 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:40:33 4 days, they've been still in the cupboard. I forget, I forget.

Lynne 0:40:37 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:40:38 I need that pillbox off of you. And that's not a joke.

Lynne 0:40:40 No, that don't work either. I've tried that.

Maria 0:40:42 Yeah. Mine's in the cupboard with all the pills in it.

Lynne 0:40:45 You've just gotta have them somewhere to have. I don't want them out by the kettle though. No, but then that's the only way you're gonna take them. I know.

Natalie Cassidy 0:40:51 Yeah.

Maria 0:40:52 Or bedside cabinet.

Lynne 0:40:53 Yeah, that's where I have mine. And in my drawer at work.

Natalie Cassidy 0:40:56 Yeah, that's a good idea. Bedside cabinet then.

Lynne 0:40:59 Have you got one of those? 'Cause I know you've got Rigiottelli in your room. What else you got?

Natalie Cassidy 0:41:04 I have, no, I've still got the 25-year-old cabinets, so I can pop one on there. Slowly but surely and all that. Slowly but surely.

Lynne 0:41:17 So you and Eliza should go running together. It's a bit of bonding, bit of time you can spend together. Oh, yeah. When is that ever gonna happen?

Natalie Cassidy 0:41:25 Would you like to do that?

Lynne 0:41:25 With me?

Natalie Cassidy 0:41:27 And I said this morning, I said, no, I said this morning, this morning, 'cause she goes back tomorrow.

Lynne 0:41:32 Oh, she's not back at school yet?

Natalie Cassidy 0:41:34 No. Would you like to come with me?

Maria 0:41:35 Not really. Sitting in the pit.

Lynne 0:41:38 I said, do you wanna go? But you know what?

Natalie Cassidy 0:41:40 Last day. Yeah. It's long old days now. It's hard work. She's got her mocks coming up. It's gonna be hard. So yeah. Yeah. She's ordered a pizza and slobbed all day and that's fine by me. It's fine by me. At that age, exercise? But they want to.

Maria 0:41:56 No, I know it's different. But when I look back, I mean, I know I was slight, but—

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:00 Yeah, but it's not about that. It's for you. But now I get it.

Maria 0:42:03 I know. I wish I did. I wish it was something I got into. So now it isn't a tool. Daily routine. Just a thing.

Lynne 0:42:08 Whereas at Eliza's age, what's Eliza, 15 coming on 16? Even prior to that, I did every sport under the sun. Well, yeah, but I did sport at school. And I was in every I was in everything.

Maria 0:42:21 I know what I'm saying. After, like, yeah, but you never— at school you didn't do gym. Of course you'd have to do PE and all that shit, sports stuff.

Lynne 0:42:28 I was— no, netball, basketball. I didn't do that.

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:31 Tennis.

Lynne 0:42:32 Tennis. Yeah, no. Run, uh, cross-country, rounders. I did it all. I loved it, loved it. In fact, they're trying to get me to play padel at work.

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:40 I don't know why you're not doing that.

Lynne 0:42:42 They said they all drive it there, all the boys are on it. And so me and— Oh, you would love that. Yeah, they said they'll 'Cause I—

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:50 You would love it.

Lynne 0:42:51 And they reckon it's not as hard as tennis.

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:53 No.

Lynne 0:42:54 So, and a lot of older women are playing this sport apparently.

Natalie Cassidy 0:42:57 Well, I think it is, as in you don't have to be as skilled. Yeah. Because you've got the glass round you. It's not that it's not as hard, it's a good, good workout if you're good at it. Yeah.

Lynne 0:43:07 But not as challenging as tennis.

Natalie Cassidy 0:43:09 I mean, I dunno what I'm talking about. I've never done it, so. Looks good though. Walked past it a few times. The old David Lloyd.

Maria 0:43:16 I'll be on your team.

Lynne 0:43:17 Shall we play? We'll play the boys. We'll play Mark and Stavros.

Maria 0:43:21 Okay.

Natalie Cassidy 0:43:22 Fantastic.

Lynne 0:43:23 Excellent. All right, I'm gonna set it up. All right.

Natalie Cassidy 0:43:24 Mark, Mark on the pod last night, sorry, I must ask 'cause it's important. We were talking about the brunch, just giving it a final push. I said people might go on next week.

Lynne 0:43:33 Is this the tickets available?

Natalie Cassidy 0:43:33 I'm not sure at the moment, but I said, go on, it could be sold out. There's very few available, da da da. And then he asked what it consisted of, which I'm sure him and Maria can have a conversation about on a Patreon app or something.

Natalie Cassidy 0:43:46 But is it ladies only? Have we put girls only? We haven't, have we? No. So he was like, can I come?

Natalie Cassidy 0:43:52 I said, no, you ain't coming. Then he was like, but why can't I? And how do you— and I said, no, it's girls only. And then afterwards he went, how rude, what if loads of blokes have joined? No, I said girls only.

Natalie Cassidy 0:44:00 I said, but it will be. I said, the demographic will be— and he said, I'm being stereotypical. I said, it will be women and gay men. And he was like, I don't agree with you. Am I right?

Maria 0:44:09 Not, not necessarily, but But for, I know I've been to brunches, there's groups of guys, groups of girls, but for our Nat's nieces, I can't imagine a lot of men.

Natalie Cassidy 0:44:21 No.

Maria 0:44:21 Unless they fancy us.

Natalie Cassidy 0:44:22 Unless he proves us, unless he proves us wrong. But I thought it was a good topic. Well, let's see. But in my brain, I thought it's girls only.

Maria 0:44:30 In our head, I think it was more positioned as like a bit of a girls get together.

Lynne 0:44:34 Yeah, I did as well. I just didn't—

Maria 0:44:36 But we, we've not said girls only. No. Interesting. You're welcome.

Natalie Cassidy 0:44:39 And he also said it's not a brunch, it's a lunch. It's not because it's 12 till 4. And I said, it doesn't matter anymore. Anyway, you'll hear this.

Maria 0:44:48 What's brunch? 11 o'clock? No, it's not. It's brunch.

Natalie Cassidy 0:44:52 But 12 till 4, really?

Lynne 0:44:53 I get it's lunch.

Maria 0:44:54 Brunch, not brunch. But brunch is brunch. She's not going for brunch and go at 10 o'clock drinking Prosecco.

Natalie Cassidy 0:44:59 No, it's brunch.

Maria 0:45:02 Yeah, it's just sort of—

Natalie Cassidy 0:45:03 I don't think he gets the concept.

Maria 0:45:04 No, he doesn't. No.

Lynne 0:45:06 Or he's got a little bit of Ooh. And he wants to be there.

Natalie Cassidy 0:45:12 Possibly.

Lynne 0:45:13 Ooh, you can come, Mark.

Natalie Cassidy 0:45:15 I think he's at work, so I don't know what he's talking about.

Lynne 0:45:17 That's fine. There you go.

Natalie Cassidy 0:45:17 Hi Nat, Linnie, and RoRo.

Natalie Cassidy 0:45:19 I've listened from the start and your pod has got me through very dark days when having life-saving surgery. I listened to you over and over to get me through. Well, I've had 13 major ops in less than 2 years, and whilst my hubby has been amazing, my daughter has been my rock and slinging block. Holding my hair back when I was poorly, helping me do day-to-day things, and taking me out for days to cheer me up. I really couldn't have got through it all without her.

Natalie Cassidy 0:45:44 I'm so, so lucky to have her in my life. Also, since my mum died 4 years ago, she has been my go-to. I love her with all my being. She's 21 and my best friend.

Lynne 0:45:53 That is lovely.

Natalie Cassidy 0:45:54 How lovely is that?

Lynne 0:45:55 And her 21-year-old daughter's had to be her rock.

Natalie Cassidy 0:45:58 Beautiful.

Lynne 0:45:59 That is.

Natalie Cassidy 0:45:59 And that's from Sarah.

Maria 0:46:01 And her daughter's 21, which is then again a funny age where, You're out and about and wanting to live your life.

Lynne 0:46:06 The fact that she's supporting her mum.

Natalie Cassidy 0:46:08 Amazing.

Lynne 0:46:09 But that just shows they've got a really beautiful relationship and it's her mum and she wants to see her mum well and—

Maria 0:46:16 This is it as well. I think probably when your mum's going through something like that, it must be really scary.

Lynne 0:46:21 Oh my goodness. And then you realise, don't you?

Natalie Cassidy 0:46:24 And you wanna care and you wanna—

Lynne 0:46:26 and again, it's that thing where, like, I remember when I used to go and visit my mum, I would like stroke her hair or like put hand cream on her hand. My dad wasn't gonna do that. No. So it's just the girly things that a woman would never— a mum's never gonna ask you to do that. You're her little girl. I was her little girl. Yeah. But I thankfully had the savvy and intellect to know what would maybe just make her feel a bit more comfortable. And, and yeah. Men aren't got nothing to do there, are they? So that's life.

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:01 But again, I didn't, when my mum was poorly or in hospital, I would've never rubbed my mum's hands with hand cream. Just did not have that reach.

Maria 0:47:08 Did you not? No. I didn't have that reach. But now you would. Yeah. You was a bit—

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:13 But we didn't know.

Lynne 0:47:14 I did it for my dad. Yeah. No, massively. But that blows my mind. But you was older.

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:18 No, but even if my dad would've been in that position at that age, I would've done it for my dad. Yeah, but I think if you had, yeah, but if Nan was here now, And it would be different.

Lynne 0:47:25 But she's talking about then when she was 18.

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:27 That's what I'm saying.

Maria 0:47:28 I think it was her age. You didn't have that relationship.

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:31 I think it was a rela— I don't think it was an age thing, genuinely.

Lynne 0:47:34 Because I was 15 when you were 14. We just had a different relationship. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, that's exactly the point.

Natalie Cassidy 0:47:40 Different.

Lynne 0:47:41 And that really, when you say it, it's not the first time you've said it, and there's nothing wrong with it. You're being honest, which is lovely. It makes me feel weird inside. Because I don't— because the way your mum was about you, I don't think of you not being close.

Natalie Cassidy 0:48:00 But also, I think—

Lynne 0:48:01 Do you know what I mean?

Natalie Cassidy 0:48:02 I'm not saying we weren't close. I loved my mum.

Lynne 0:48:05 No, of course. But—

Natalie Cassidy 0:48:06 I had my whole life with my mum was— my mum never brought me to school in the morning.

Lynne 0:48:12 No, your dad did it all.

Natalie Cassidy 0:48:13 Mum never took me out. Yeah. We never did beauty together or— Went to a cinema or a restaurant. We never went on holiday. We never—

Maria 0:48:21 Yeah, you hadn't had those bonding moments. No, not really.

Natalie Cassidy 0:48:24 At home we did when we were young, Marie. Young. Right. Yeah. But by the time I got to second school in 11, I felt that I'd not had that relationship to keep it up, and I just wanted to be out with lots of different people because we didn't have that bond. I do think you forget when Nanny wasn't well.

Maria 0:48:42 I mean, you did do some things for her.

Natalie Cassidy 0:48:44 Like, no, yes, of course. I was talking about when she had cancer in hospital, and I remember that and going up and sitting with her and that. But you— I'm just— you— I'm picturing you at a hospital bed doing that and thinking back to that and thinking, I don't— just wouldn't have done that. No, I got her a water and tucked her up, but touchy-feely stuff I'm talking about.

Lynne 0:49:04 Yeah. And that's why it's so unfair, isn't it, when you've been cheated of a parent? Because you do have— your relationship does change. Oh, it changes. From like age to age.

Natalie Cassidy 0:49:13 Absolutely.

Lynne 0:49:14 Subject to what age you are and what age that person is. Well, you're learning.

Natalie Cassidy 0:49:17 You also, as an adult, learn about your mum as a woman. Yes. And what she's been through and her personality.

Lynne 0:49:23 And as you get older and you go through experiences, you then appreciate what your mum has been through.

Natalie Cassidy 0:49:29 Or what she suffered with.

Lynne 0:49:30 Yeah. Or whether you agreed with something they did or didn't do. Yeah. Then you understand and can relate to, you know, like you've said before on a pod, you, this is, you, with Eliza, when you said, This is the first time I've ever done this. Yes. Yeah, that's right. We're all learning. No one's— no one uses— no, we've never had a mum, we've never had a daughter. Yeah, you don't— there's no training course. No, there isn't.

Maria 0:49:51 But then, like, obviously being around Eliza and Joni, for me, I feel like it's a bit more experience than just— there's some people that have got no experience. No, that is true.

Natalie Cassidy 0:50:00 That's very— I completely agree with that because you've had— I don't feel completely like—

Maria 0:50:03 No, you've had Ruby's baby.

Lynne 0:50:05 You were probably the first baby I ever held. I never held a baby. Babies. Yeah. I never— whoever.

Maria 0:50:11 But also as well, I think back then, like we've now, now we talk to our kids, they know about everything. Periods, hormones, this, it's that understanding as well. 'Cause that is so important.

Lynne 0:50:22 So important.

Natalie Cassidy 0:50:23 Never spoke about emotions and there was a lot going on there as we know.

Maria 0:50:27 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:50:27 So in terms of me saying it's all right to feel sad, it's all right to cry. Like I do that. I can wake up in the morning and cry all day for no reason. I do that. Yeah. That's okay.

Lynne 0:50:38 Whereas you would never, ever— I had to confront that. Asia would never have shown you her feelings. And her weaknesses. Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:50:45 It was all very private, wasn't it? Stiff upper lip, get on with it.

Maria 0:50:47 But even like, obviously you're so conscious of being sensitive to Eliza when she's going through things, but I think it's also about her being sensitive to you when you're having a shit day. Absolutely. That's really important.

Natalie Cassidy 0:50:59 But that does happen now. Yeah. 'Cause she'll go, you're not right. What's the matter today? So she'll— And I'll just say, I'm not right today. I feel like shit. Or I'm a grump. I'll say, I'm grumpy. I'm coming on, babe. And she's fine. She'll go, oh yeah. But we, you know each other, you know who you live with. You know if someone's not quite right. Yeah. Don't you? You always do if you love them and you spend time with them and you care about 'em.

Lynne 0:51:17 Yeah. And also, it's also the dynamic of like being in a household where there's multiple daughters as well. Do you know what I mean? You have different relationships with the different Their relationship together. It's a lot going on. It is a lot to manage and keep this peace and equilibrium and fairness. I'm obsessed with fairness. Everything has to be fair. Everything has to be fair. If I go to Ellie's and I've done housework there, I'm like—

Maria 0:51:45 Yeah, I'm like, you're so exhausting. Just don't worry about it.

Lynne 0:51:48 Even with Annalisa, I went round there last Friday or whenever it was, and I'm upstairs doing their bathrooms with them 'cause I feel bad 'cause I feel like she doesn't get as much support. And not just her, for Dominique. He's my son.

Natalie Cassidy 0:51:59 Yeah, I know, but you can't do everything. You've got to do for you.

Maria 0:52:02 You can't, yeah, it's hard.

Natalie Cassidy 0:52:03 You need a little bit of you time as well. You've gotta remember that from your daughters, from your family. Yeah. Everyone also would like you to have a little rest.

Maria 0:52:11 She does crack me up though. The other Sunday we were on the phone. She's— I was on my own for once. She's like, what are you doing today? I said, I'm gonna do all the kids' wardrobes out.

Natalie Cassidy 0:52:19 Again, the wardrobes. Come on.

Maria 0:52:22 I thought I was gonna do every wardrobe. I just about got to the kids. She said, all right, do you want me to come and help you? I said, Mum, it's honestly, it's fine. You've got shit to do. Yeah. Blah, blah, blah. Anyway, I'm upstairs and I can hear the door, keys in the door. She couldn't help herself. However, you didn't help me on this occasion. She just raided my wardrobe for holiday clothes. She was getting in dresses that I've not worn for years. Brilliant. They would fit me. I was like, go for it.

Lynne 0:52:47 And it's like really overwhelming. I stepped into the bedroom and I saw everything. I thought, oh God, where do you even start? Why have I come round? It's a lot, isn't it?

Maria 0:52:56 You can't help yourself.

Lynne 0:52:58 No, I can't. Honestly, if I didn't work, I would be, I guarantee you.

Maria 0:53:03 Oh, that'd be so good.

Natalie Cassidy 0:53:04 If you didn't go to work.

Maria 0:53:05 Perhaps you could spend a day at each of our houses. I'd spend, yeah.

Lynne 0:53:07 And I would 100% be doing that. I'd tell, and I enjoy it. I'd pay you a lot, I was gonna say. Oh no, I wouldn't expect to be paid. No. I'm believing for it. That's what I would be doing. I know it already.

Natalie Cassidy 0:53:16 Yeah. How long till you retire? She's quite happy, thank you.

Natalie Cassidy 0:56:07 Hi, Natalie. Saw your message about tonight. I lost my mum in 2009. I was 22. I'm the youngest of 5 kids, and I've never heard anyone speak about the envy I feel for the relationships my mum had with her older siblings. I find it unfair they got her for longer, and I know it's ridiculous, but I wondered if you ever felt like that about Tony and David. Oh. Sorry to make it a grief-related message, but it's just on my heart just now. Absolutely love the podcast. You guys make me feel like I've got a bunch of friends and we are catching up every week.

Lynne 0:56:38 We are your friends. We are. So lovely.

Maria 0:56:40 Before you answer that though, that's funny that she said that. Yeah. Because I do it.

Natalie Cassidy 0:56:45 How about when she got— she used to cry her eyes out and be so jealous of your wedding video because I was there. Yeah. Do you remember that? It really upset me.

Maria 0:56:55 But I remember, I still do it now. I'll say to Eddie and Dom, oh, but you wasn't here when I was born and I was around with Mum and Dad for longer. And Alfie will sometimes do it to me. He says, oh, I loved it before Ruby got here and it was just us. Isn't it funny?

Natalie Cassidy 0:57:09 And actually, funnily enough, and it's a very different situation, but I think it's something Mark's done, 'cause it's a little thing between him and Eliza. When Joni gets in the car or something, he'll go, God, do you remember when it was the good old days and she weren't about?

Maria 0:57:23 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:57:23 But he'll do that quite a lot with Eliza and be like, oh, do you remember when it was just chimpy time and not chimpy and monkey time? Like, I'm Yeah.

Maria 0:57:30 It's funny.

Lynne 0:57:32 But that's a value. Very, very good point. How do you feel? And what I would say is no. No, you've never, ever said?

Natalie Cassidy 0:57:38 Never felt like that.

Lynne 0:57:40 No. That they had your parents?

Natalie Cassidy 0:57:42 No, isn't that funny? No.

Lynne 0:57:44 No.

Natalie Cassidy 0:57:44 I just think maybe it's because it's such a, such a gap.

Maria 0:57:48 And also you had a lot of time with just them. Yeah, I did. So maybe you felt like you had them to yourself.

Natalie Cassidy 0:57:54 Well, I think maybe because it's such a gap, David wasn't living at home and Tony was only there for a very short time. I don't even— it doesn't even enter my head that they were children with my mum and dad.

Lynne 0:58:04 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:58:05 I don't really think of them as children.

Maria 0:58:07 Yeah. And then actually, when they moved out, you got more time with them. They probably didn't see him as much, so it probably all evens out anyway.

Natalie Cassidy 0:58:12 But a lot of— I do remember my time with Tony living at home. Yeah. That's very special to me.

Lynne 0:58:17 Do you? Yeah. Not with Dave at all. No, 'cause he was— he left.

Natalie Cassidy 0:58:21 But my favourite memory of Dave is when he had his tonsils out before Tony's wedding and he lived with us for 4 days. And I was so excited. Do you remember? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was poorly. But I remember that, and my memory's not good, but I remember David being, living with us. Living some time with you.

Lynne 0:58:36 Yeah. Yeah, again, your relationship with your brothers, it's different, isn't it? Because whilst they're your brothers, you didn't actually grow up with them.

Maria 0:58:43 I do get what she's saying though. I bet she must feel, I do understand feeling like that. I think I would probably feel like that.

Lynne 0:58:50 And it's interesting because I, On the odd occasion, I've had that thought where I've— and even though that me and my brothers are all very close in age, I do often think, I have to remind myself, Demetra was 12.

Natalie Cassidy 0:59:01 Yes, yes.

Lynne 0:59:02 I was already working. I know I was only 16, but I was already working. Out in the world. Yes.

Natalie Cassidy 0:59:07 You're a child.

Lynne 0:59:08 As was my older brother. Demetra was 12.

Natalie Cassidy 0:59:11 Yeah.

Lynne 0:59:12 You know? Yeah. It's damaging stuff. Of course it is.

Maria 0:59:15 I'll just— yeah, but you know what? It's never easy, is it?

Natalie Cassidy 0:59:18 No, no, it's never easy.

Maria 0:59:20 I, if I've had you for many years, great, but I, what the fuck would I do? It'd be awful.

Natalie Cassidy 0:59:26 I always say that when someone's extremely upset and their mum is 96 and they go on bitting back. I said, you've had them for longer. Yeah. You've made more memories.

Maria 0:59:36 You don't know your life without them.

Lynne 0:59:38 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 0:59:39 Yeah. It is true.

Lynne 0:59:40 I totally agree.

Maria 0:59:41 I always remember Debbie saying that.

Lynne 0:59:43 No, I agree. Debbie was one.

Natalie Cassidy 0:59:44 I was Debbie when she lost her mum at 1 too.

Lynne 0:59:47 God. Baby. So she didn't know, she doesn't know what she missed. She don't know what I missed.

Natalie Cassidy 0:59:51 She always used to say that.

Lynne 0:59:52 Yeah. And I get that a little bit as well, 'cause I was only just turned 16. What you haven't had, you kind of don't miss. You kind of crave something. Crave something. Yeah. Crave, oh, I wonder what that. But you don't know 'cause you never had it.

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:04 Well, I know the pain I felt for both parents and who I had longer.

Maria 1:00:08 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:09 And Jesus Christ, it's not, it's still in my heart.

Maria 1:00:12 Grounded, yes.

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:13 When I get home in the morning and the kids are not here, it always happens today. So you get home and you think, oh, do I have a cup of tea with him now?

Maria 1:00:20 Yeah, but he lived here as well. You got all of that. It's a lot, isn't it? Reminders and—

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:25 But lovely. Yeah. As the saying goes, the more you love, the more pain you feel. It's just, it's part of life. It's just something.

Lynne 1:00:33 So to have that pain, you're kind of lucky because that means you had such a special relationship with that person.

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:38 Yeah, and that goes in all of life. Whoever you love and— Can we light a candle?

Maria 1:00:43 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:44 Oh, fuck me. She won't sleep tonight. Get your mushrooms out. Shut me up.

Maria 1:00:47 Thank God I don't get mushrooms. Get the mushrooms out. Thank God I don't do grief pods. Jesus.

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:52 This is, this is heartfelt stuff here, babe.

Maria 1:00:54 I know, but what we gonna do?

Natalie Cassidy 1:00:56 When you doing your second wardrobe up?

Maria 1:00:57 I dunno.

Lynne 1:00:59 When I get round there.

Natalie Cassidy 1:01:00 That's a shoe cabinet.

Maria 1:01:01 No, I don't. I've got so much to do. Hopefully I would've been moved out into a new house by then.

Natalie Cassidy 1:01:06 I have to say, you say you've got a lot to do, Yeah, just pop in my room and look at the furniture, make you feel better.

Maria 1:01:11 I know, but at least you haven't got shit. I've got bags of clothes in my boots that I need to— I can't not vintage some of it. No, you should. Who's got time? No, I know. When's that being done? And then a friend of mine said she tried to take some to the charity shop and they said no.

Natalie Cassidy 1:01:27 No, and that's— you do find that now?

Maria 1:01:29 She took a load of stuff to the charity shop and they didn't want it. Why?

Natalie Cassidy 1:01:33 Some of them are overrun and some of them are very fussy because they want their shop a certain way or they've got enough of certain things. Oh, wow. I found that. I took a load of puzzles there and they were like, oh no, I've said that. I told you what the council do.

Lynne 1:01:45 Told you this before.

Natalie Cassidy 1:01:46 Oh yeah, you did.

Lynne 1:01:47 You can put it in a sack on your doorstep and the council come and collect it. Oh, just take it. And it doesn't go in the bin.

Natalie Cassidy 1:01:53 No, no. They dish it out to whoever.

Maria 1:01:55 Well, even there's a thing in Ware, like you can put all the, like the bin things that you can put them all in.

Lynne 1:02:01 Yeah, like the clothes bank.

Maria 1:02:02 There is just bags.

Natalie Cassidy 1:02:04 I know. Lying everywhere. It's awful.

Maria 1:02:05 That's fly-tipping, isn't it? Yeah. They just dump it.

Natalie Cassidy 1:02:08 It's not nice at all.

Maria 1:02:09 So you can't do that.

Lynne 1:02:11 Why did, why did this not used to happen back in the day?

Natalie Cassidy 1:02:14 Because people didn't—

Maria 1:02:15 Fast fashion.

Natalie Cassidy 1:02:15 Fast fashion. People kept things.

Maria 1:02:17 We're all ruining the world.

Natalie Cassidy 1:02:20 It's true.

Lynne 1:02:21 Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 1:02:22 People kept things. You went out and bought a few things, but you had things for best, things for weddings, things for this, didn't you?

Lynne 1:02:28 You weren't buying a lot of clothing a week. Things for a night out. Yeah.

Maria 1:02:31 Yes, it is mad. It is mental actually.

Lynne 1:02:34 Money.

Natalie Cassidy 1:02:34 I have to say, I've always been very good with the children though. Never overbought ever, ever. 'Cause they're at school all week.

Maria 1:02:43 It is true.

Natalie Cassidy 1:02:44 What they wearing? What do they need? Couple of pairs of jeans, couple of jumpers. I don't ever go mad with the children. I did with Eliza when she was a baby. I spent a lot of money on stuff.

Maria 1:02:53 But it is true when they're at school week, what are they wearing?

Lynne 1:02:57 Yeah, they're throwing a dress on at the weekend. And then at the weekend, bit of dance, bit of drama.

Natalie Cassidy 1:03:00 They wanna be chilled at home, leggings.

Lynne 1:03:02 out of this stuff so quickly. Yeah, it's mad. You can't be buying loads of stuff.

Natalie Cassidy 1:03:06 But Elia does make me laugh 'cause she goes, oh, Joni, you look nice. She's actually in an outfit that's all right for a change. But she is right, you know. But I let 'em wear what they want. But she's getting to that age now, she wants to pick things. And she's picked a little cardigan, you know, like the little Pringle, little—

Maria 1:03:21 A little argyle.

Natalie Cassidy 1:03:22 Little argyle cardi with a little pair of dark jeans. She is funny. Farrow jeans. She's so cute.

Lynne 1:03:27 She is funny, isn't she?

Natalie Cassidy 1:03:30 Oh dear.

Maria 1:03:31 She gets her dress sense from you, I think.

Natalie Cassidy 1:03:35 Possible.

Lynne 1:03:36 Who's more like you, Eliza or Joni?

Natalie Cassidy 1:03:38 I think they both have my traits in different ways.

Lynne 1:03:43 Does Elia have any of my traits?

Natalie Cassidy 1:03:47 No. No, I'm joking, I'm joking.

Maria 1:03:50 I don't know, I've never really thought about it.

Lynne 1:03:53 Elia's like, me in the sense that if she bumps into someone, she doesn't forget. She'll ring me to tell me. She's like, I saw so-and-so and they said send you a card. Oh yeah. I'm like that. Yeah. I want that person to know. Yeah.

Natalie Cassidy 1:04:03 She's very, yeah, like you, loves to chat with people and all that. Yeah. I think she's like that. Whereas this one's the polar opposite.

Maria 1:04:09 Yeah. Quiet.

Lynne 1:04:10 Yeah. She's more like Dave in that regard. But I think that's, Elia has a lot of you in her.

Natalie Cassidy 1:04:15 We're very alike. Yeah. Ridiculous.

Lynne 1:04:18 Yeah. Like the shopping, the speed that you shop. I could, yeah.

Maria 1:04:24 But Dad's not like that at all.

Natalie Cassidy 1:04:26 No.

Lynne 1:04:27 No. No. He likes to, he likes to shop and if he wants something, he'll just buy it. There's not a lot.

Maria 1:04:33 Mum, he's got clothes in his wardrobe with labels on that have been there for 2 years.

Lynne 1:04:37 Yeah. He likes to buy things and not wear them. Or shoes.

Natalie Cassidy 1:04:40 He'll go, you know those shoes you bought me?

Lynne 1:04:41 In '19. I haven't worn 'em yet.

Maria 1:04:42 Yeah, I know.

Natalie Cassidy 1:04:43 It's bizarre. And I say, that winds me up. I don't congratulate you on it. You gotta wear things. Yeah.

Lynne 1:04:46 It's bizarre. Bizarre. But yeah, I think Ellie's probably more like you than she's like me.

Natalie Cassidy 1:04:52 Yeah. Funny, innit?

Lynne 1:04:54 Yeah. But Ellie's easy to get on with. I think Ellie's just a, she's just a funny human being.

Maria 1:05:01 Yeah, she's just got funny vibes.

Natalie Cassidy 1:05:03 She's got such a lovely, yeah, lovely character. She's also got an opinion.

Lynne 1:05:08 Oh yeah, she has an opinion.

Maria 1:05:09 She'll tell you your opinion. She's not miserable.

Lynne 1:05:12 No. She's not like me. No. No.

Natalie Cassidy 1:05:14 No.

Maria 1:05:14 Calm down.

Lynne 1:05:17 Calm down.

Maria 1:05:19 No.

Natalie Cassidy 1:05:19 No, but you're not. No, that's not true. I don't like you saying that. It's not that you're miserable. You're fucking miserable. No, you're sensitive and you are—

Lynne 1:05:27 I'm a bit more of a deep thinker. Yeah, very deep.

Natalie Cassidy 1:05:30 But I feel like you're, you can just, your moods change and swing. No.

Lynne 1:05:35 So she's trying to be diplomatic here. It's not working. Because it's important. No, it's not. We can't all be the same. No, Ellie is that person where, She can bite at you.

Maria 1:05:45 She's happy-go-lucky. Yeah. Yes.

Lynne 1:05:46 And then 2 seconds later she's laughing and dancing with you.

Natalie Cassidy 1:05:49 When I mean opinions, actually, I'm saying she sat here with me and Mark before and it's like counselling. Do you know what I mean? Not even if something's gone wrong, she goes, but you two should go out more, and what you need to do, and this is what you've got to do. And I mean this because it's a— she's quite assertive. Yeah, assertive, very helpful. Yeah. And yeah, she can have a pop as well.

Lynne 1:06:09 But also, and she's a fantastic friend. I'm sure her friends will say that. Yeah.

Maria 1:06:13 But don't take any shit.

Lynne 1:06:15 She don't. But I'm the same. She's black and white. I'll be—

Natalie Cassidy 1:06:17 I'll do anything for you. But if it's over, I can't. See ya later. See ya. Don't even think about you again.

Lynne 1:06:22 Whereas Maria isn't like that. She thinks she's like that, but she's not. Mm. She— I know she'll dwell on that friend and be upset and hurt.

Natalie Cassidy 1:06:30 Nah, she's had a couple she couldn't give a shit about.

Lynne 1:06:32 Yeah.

Maria 1:06:33 I've got better as I've got older. Yeah. But yeah, I struggled when I was younger.

Lynne 1:06:37 Yeah, she loves her friends and she's loyal to her friends. And if you don't get it back, I always used to say to her, your expectations, because of what you do, you're always gonna be disappointed 'cause no one's ever gonna be able to live up to it.

Maria 1:06:50 Yeah, I find I couldn't cut people out like you and Eddie do. Yeah, exactly. I struggle to do that.

Lynne 1:06:55 If I have to, I will. And I understand you. Yeah, I do.

Maria 1:06:59 That's not— doesn't come easy to me. Yes.

Natalie Cassidy 1:07:05 Funny old game.

Maria 1:07:06 Funny old game. You could just talk about women dynamics.

Natalie Cassidy 1:07:11 All day long. All day.

Lynne 1:07:13 It's such a— isn't it? Like, we had to touch on it again because the one we did about— what was it? We spoke about women, didn't we?

Natalie Cassidy 1:07:20 You could just do a pod on women.

Lynne 1:07:22 And then we had—

Natalie Cassidy 1:07:22 well, there are pods on women.

Lynne 1:07:23 And then there were so many men's shit.

Maria 1:07:24 So many amazing women, but just some fucking dickheads as well.

Lynne 1:07:27 What, women?

Maria 1:07:28 Yeah, mad. Blows my brains. Like who? Just people, especially in my industry and where I worked before. Fake people, it blows my brains. You must see it in your industry as well.

Lynne 1:07:40 Yeah.

Maria 1:07:40 What, what? I just don't know why you would want to be like that. I just can't—

Natalie Cassidy 1:07:46 Fake in what sort of way?

Maria 1:07:46 Just bitchy, fake, will say one thing but then does another. It's just weird. I find it really odd.

Lynne 1:07:55 I just think as you get older, you learn something. Just be kind. If you don't like someone, then just don't say anything. I would not.

Natalie Cassidy 1:08:05 I hate people talking about people.

Lynne 1:08:07 Just be kind. I don't even mean about talking about people. That's what I'm saying. Because ultimately someone's talking about you, they're doing it behind your back. You don't know, you're none the wiser. It is what it is.

Natalie Cassidy 1:08:13 No, but if I'm involved in that conversation.

Lynne 1:08:15 Oh, I see.

Natalie Cassidy 1:08:16 And it's about someone that I don't really care about, I think, why are you wasting that time talking about someone?

Lynne 1:08:21 But I'm talking about more about someone you're close Or to. whether it's an old friend, a new friend, a neighbour, someone you work with, just be nice.

Maria 1:08:32 Yeah, but it's what I find mad. So I was watching The Only Way Is Essex. I don't really watch it. It was on, I was ironing or something.

Lynne 1:08:39 I don't really watch it, man.

Maria 1:08:40 No, I don't, but I do sometimes. But I just can't believe that they're still making a programme based on people slagging each other off, going behind people's back, causing gossip. Like, you know, somebody, like a girl, with her mates chatting. Is that real? Does that actually go on? I can't believe they're going round someone else's house going, oh, by the way, so-and-so said that.

Natalie Cassidy 1:09:00 Yes, yes.

Maria 1:09:00 And I'm like, the whole programme—

Lynne 1:09:02 It's really bad actually. Is around—

Maria 1:09:03 Yeah, it's really bad.

Natalie Cassidy 1:09:05 Bitching.

Lynne 1:09:06 Bitching. Gay guys bitching. 'Cause the straight guys don't bitch on there. They don't, they're just there to make up the numbers.

Maria 1:09:13 But even them, sometimes I listen to their conversations, I'm like, do guys really give a fuck about that? Like, do you really care about so-and-so's friendship?

Natalie Cassidy 1:09:20 It's a bit of a scripted show, isn't it?

Maria 1:09:22 No, I know, but I'm just saying, I can't believe this day and age. That's still like, yeah. That is the whole point of the show.

Lynne 1:09:28 Portraying that that's okay for friends to be falling out.

Maria 1:09:32 Because who do— I'm— don't get me wrong, I know there are still people, you will get things that rub you up the wrong way or whatever, but I don't know, you just hope that again that's become a bit more of a thing of the past.

Natalie Cassidy 1:09:42 And you hope people have got each other's backs a bit. And as you say, you can just take no notice if you don't get on with someone.

Lynne 1:09:48 Yeah, just don't. Yeah, there's no need to be horrible.

Natalie Cassidy 1:09:51 No need to vilify people.

Lynne 1:09:52 Yeah, and you need to drum this into Ruby. the girls when they're young, if you can just teach them that at such a young age. Yeah. Yeah. I'll say that all day. It will hold you. Be kind. Be kind. Yeah.

Maria 1:10:03 I was listening to, oh, what's her name? You had her on the pod. G. Barry.

Natalie Cassidy 1:10:10 G. K. Barry. G. K. Barry.

Maria 1:10:12 Thank you. What's her real name?

Natalie Cassidy 1:10:13 Grace.

Maria 1:10:13 Grace. Thank you. She just did the Brunson. And so many things she was speaking about at school really resonated with me. It really upset me.

Lynne 1:10:22 What? Like what?

Maria 1:10:23 Just the bullying.

Lynne 1:10:24 Yeah.

Maria 1:10:24 That I sort of, and I think at the time I never come to you and told you that that was happening.

Lynne 1:10:28 No. Which blows my mind. Isn't that mad?

Maria 1:10:31 And I just got on with it. Why didn't you? I dunno, I was embarrassed, I think.

Lynne 1:10:34 Why don't children tell their parents?

Natalie Cassidy 1:10:36 No, I think they, you just get on with it, don't you? Yeah.

Lynne 1:10:38 Why? Why would you?

Natalie Cassidy 1:10:39 Is this part, sort of part of school and—

Maria 1:10:42 It does happen to everyone, but I mean—

Natalie Cassidy 1:10:45 I think it happens to a lot of people in different ways.

Lynne 1:10:47 Yeah. Shocks me that they can be very lucky.

Natalie Cassidy 1:10:50 If it get, if it were to get worse, I remember one girl, I remember a ginger girl, Toni, her name was with an I. And she threatened to beat me up and I did go home and tell my mum.

Lynne 1:10:57 No, I remember. Do you not remember?

Maria 1:10:59 That was good.

Lynne 1:10:59 Do you not remember being in my lounge? That was fucking good.

Natalie Cassidy 1:11:01 I shit myself.

Lynne 1:11:02 Do you remember not being in my lounge and your mum told me? 'Cause your mum would talk to me. Oh. I used to talk to your mum. Do you not remember that? And I was fuming. I remember. Remember at that stage I probably, yeah, I must have had you. I reckon I was 14. As old as that? Yeah. This must have been even younger.

Natalie Cassidy 1:11:16 No, this was secondary school. Oh, that must, that was, um, back in—

Lynne 1:11:18 I was fuming. I remember saying to you, I don't know what babies I was part of.

Natalie Cassidy 1:11:23 She was just that, every day you went in and you didn't know if you were gonna be her friend.

Maria 1:11:27 Oh, isn't that awful? Oh, and every day and you think, oh, please God, are you in the group?

Natalie Cassidy 1:11:31 And if I'm today, then you just don't get spoken to all day.

Maria 1:11:34 I remember this thing going around. It was like, there was that rumour it was gonna be the end of the world and everyone was making end of the world cards for each other and no one made me one.

Natalie Cassidy 1:11:43 Oh, stop. It's perfect really though, innit? But at the time it's—

Maria 1:11:47 Yeah, it means a lot. I remember though, Amy sometimes, I got some girl up by the phone.

Natalie Cassidy 1:11:55 Vote for you.

Maria 1:11:55 Yeah, but no, I did it for Amy. Oh yeah. Being horrible to Amy.

Lynne 1:11:58 Really?

Maria 1:11:59 Excellent. That's good, wasn't it? Yeah, girls are horrible. But yeah, no, it was horrible. Yeah, a few things she was saying, I was like, oh my God, that does resonate. It does happen a lot. I think it's very rare no one will get something, a little bit of bullying.

Natalie Cassidy 1:12:13 I think we should definitely pick up— That's another subject. Do another subject on that, 'cause I think that's a huge subject and a good one.

Lynne 1:12:19 Very much so.

Natalie Cassidy 1:12:21 07788 201919. I wanna end on this message. I wanna thank you both.

Natalie Cassidy 1:12:26 Oh, thank you. It's been lovely. Thank you so much. Hi Nat, mums and daughters, it really is true what they say. When you are young, you need your mum.

Natalie Cassidy 1:12:34 Then you enter a stage where you might not need her as much for a while, teenage and early adult years. And then you realise how much you need her again and how precious that relationship is when you are an adult. I never imagined I could miss the presence of someone so much in my life. Mother-daughter relationships really are so special. It's so important to cherish them.

Natalie Cassidy 1:12:51 It's always lovely to hear how much you cherish your time with your girls and Auntie Lillian and her girls too. Lots of love to you all. Wendy from Glasgow. Oh, thank you so much, Wendy. Um, that's it for today.

Natalie Cassidy 1:13:03 I hope you enjoy. Please subscribe, follow, tell your friends, follow us on Instagram, Life with Nat Pod. Tell your mums if you've got them and your daughters, and, uh, we'll see you again soon.

Maria 1:13:16 Lovely. Bye.

Natalie Cassidy 1:13:17 Thanks, girls. Love you, kids. You're very lucky, the pair of you. Cherish each other.

Maria 1:13:21 We're all lucky.

Lynne 1:13:22 Yeah, we are. You're, you're my daughter too. Yeah, as well as my sister.

Natalie Cassidy 1:13:26 Definitely not my sister and your mate, but calm down. Right, see you all later. Ciao for now. See you later.

Lynne 1:13:33 Bye-bye.